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historical merits of the bible?
#31
RE: historical merits of the bible?
I'm a little shocked at the uselessness of the bible as an important piece of historical text.

The beginners guide to religious brainwashing 101.
That's a long title! Let's call it "bible" for short.
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Know God, Know fear.
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#32
RE: historical merits of the bible?
(June 28, 2014 at 4:14 pm)rasetsu Wrote:
(June 28, 2014 at 8:20 am)vodkafan Wrote: Of course there is valuable cultural history knowledge buried in there.

The bible is unreliable as a historical text. It's also unreliable when it comes to the culture of the time. Nothing is what it seems. Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman make the case that the torah was codified in the 6th and 7th centuries B.C., yet it claims to describe a period long before then. In doing so, its authors appear to have created anachronisms by describing prior centuries using the context they were familiar with at the time they were writing. And examples such as the geographical mistakes in Mark make it clear that there is no part of the bible which is left untouched by persistent issues of unreliability. It's impossible to say which parts of the text are actually historical and which are merely fanciful, so the whole is useless for historical information.


Donald Redford preceded Finkelstein by 7 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_B._Redford

Quote:Redford was the winner of the 1993 "Best Scholarly Book in Archaeology" awarded by the Biblical Archaeology Society for his work Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times.[1] In the book he argues that the experiences of the Hyksos in Egypt became a central foundation of myths in Canaanite culture, leading to the story of Moses. He further argues that almost all the toponymic details in the Exodus story reflect conditions in Egypt not earlier than the Twenty-sixth Dynasty, the Saite period, namely the 7th century BC. Whoever, Redford argues, provided the author of Exodus with these details had no access to Egyptian material earlier than that date.[2] This view was expounded upon in The Bible Unearthed by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman.
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#33
RE: historical merits of the bible?
John Waters (yes, him) noted the Bible does NOT proscribe eating dogshit.

I also note, elements of the story of the Levite's Concubine interest me from a 'True Crime' perspective. I won't attest to the religious aspects of the tale, nor the date, location, (mise en scene), but, clearly, a 'concubine' met a gruesome end, and the disposition of her remains was disturbing. That the mindset capable of such an atrocity is still lurking in some of cities is something to contemplate after an additional (possible) 3000 years of societal evolution.

Other 'meritorious' aspects of the Bible are my oft mentioned highly selective obedience demonstrated by todays fundies and then pointing it out to them. Inconvenient too (for them), to note their unfamiliarity with their sacred tome, especially in the contradictions, silliness, inconsistencies and also in their eagerness to hold it malleable for what ever cause is hot in their orbit at the moment.
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#34
RE: historical merits of the bible?
Guys, a quick naive question.
What do the Chinese have for a bible?
Is that as full of bs as well?
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#35
RE: historical merits of the bible?
They have the bible. Yes, it's full of bs. Or do you mean their own home grown superstitions and ghost stories? In which case, they have alot - and yes...it;s all full of bs too.
(I'll get you some links if you want to read their bedtime stories)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#36
RE: historical merits of the bible?
(June 30, 2014 at 1:03 am)ignoramus Wrote: Guys, a quick naive question.
What do the Chinese have for a bible?
Is that as full of bs as well?

Other cultures certainly have their divinely inspired texts, produced by the various priest-types of their respective tribal gods. Such tales and scriptures, at least the ones I'm familiar with, have a variety of "just so" tales, creation myths and divine factional struggles mixed in with some history of the respective culture.

One example that leaps to mind is the Iliad. Archaeology has confirmed there was a real City of Troy and it was destroyed in some great war of some kind. However, I wouldn't use the Iliad as a sourcebook to reliably understand what happened during this war, even if we stripped out all the supernatural elements (like the recent movie did).

I would venture a wild guess that the war was really over the Helespont, a waterway on the edges of the city of Troy that connected the Balkans with Asia Minor and the Aegean with the Black Sea. It would be a good bet that such a strategic position would grant the city state a lot of control over trade in the region.

Was "Helen" a metaphor for "Helespont"? This is how myths are made.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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#37
RE: historical merits of the bible?
Some of the chinese stuff ties directly into history and kingship. Essentially, their history picks up -right as their mythology leaves off. They don't miss a single heartbeat. Kind of fascinating in that regard.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#38
RE: historical merits of the bible?
Quick overview of the archaeology related to the bible;
There is a king of the northern kingdom who gets a single line in the OT, there is a Persian stele also describing a treaty with this king.
Beyond that the archaeology actually directly contradicts the biblical claims, most tellingly the claim that there were 1 or 2 monotheistic kingdoms in Isreal with a single temple at Jerusalem. If this were the case you wouldn't expect to find uninterrupted polytheistic temples and shrines right the way through till the Macedonian conquest around 450BCE. At this point the temples and shrines are all desecrated and burnt (carbon dated on the charcoal)
This coincides with the "return from Babylon" in the OT timeline.
As such it would appear that history was specifically rewritten to confer legitimacy onto the incoming theocracy.

Thus the prophesies can be dismissed as fake as they occur prior to this point.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
-Esquilax

Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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#39
RE: historical merits of the bible?
Does a nice thick Bible used as a book end to prop up a shelf of actual history count as historical merit?
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#40
RE: historical merits of the bible?
(June 30, 2014 at 8:21 am)Cato Wrote: Does a nice thick Bible used as a book end to prop up a shelf of actual history count as historical merit?

Such a book would clearly be in the wrong section, and occupying shelf space that could be much better filled by an abridged copy of Gibbon's Decline and Fall of Rome. Or a brick.
The correct location should be the designated smoking area labeled for use as free rolling paper.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
-Esquilax

Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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