Legalization.

[Dystopia]

Assisted suicide is the same as euthanasia? Or am I confusing? If so, it's debatable, but as long as there are people willingly to do it and the will of the person is respected, it's fine. Just don't force me to agree with the ethics of assisted suicide, you can do as you please.

Yup, it's the same.

What exactly about the ethics of the issue do you not agree with?

Well I'm assuming assisted suicide implies someone unplugging, therefore taking a life in a cause-effect relationship of another human being. I wouldn't be comfortable do it, specially if it was a relative of mine. But if some people are fine doing it, it's ok. We should always respect the person's opinion on the matter.

From a legal perspective it matches the description of murder, even though it's not the same. Where I live it is still illegal.

And I think euthanasia shouldn't depend only on the law, each case should go to court and the decision of the court would be yes or no. I say this because in some cases we don't know if the person would consent or not, if they are in a comma for instance.

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Well of course but the same could be said about selling cigarettes. I'm not talking about selling, but using per se, the act of consumption shouldn't be punishable. Here it is not punishable but it may be illegal on public space. Even hard drugs are not, even though jail time for trafficking those is higher.

The same is said for cigarettes. It is illegal to sell cigarettes to minors.
Aside from that the sale, purchase, and use of cigarettes is legal.
The same should be said for all drugs. IMO

Well if you think that about seatbelts you should support driving a motorbike without helmet and practicing sports without required protection. I don't think it should be legal, some people are too stupid to wear a seatbelt unless the law forces them, it may sound harsh and against freedom, but it's just a way of protecting people, some people hurt themselves unwillingly because of irresponsibility, this kind o irresponsibility can be controlled by the law.

Hard drugs shouldn't be, they cause to much addiction, the State would just be wasting human resources (I assume you're talking about the sale).

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Well of course but the same could be said about selling cigarettes. I'm not talking about selling, but using per se, the act of consumption shouldn't be punishable. Here it is not punishable but it may be illegal on public space. Even hard drugs are not, even though jail time for trafficking those is higher.

The same is said for cigarettes. It is illegal to sell cigarettes to minors.
Aside from that the sale, purchase, and use of cigarettes is legal.
The same should be said for all drugs. IMO

As a smoker I can tell you 90% of stores sell cigs to minors, nowadays a 14 year old sometimes looks like 18 . It's difficult to keep asking for ID to everyone. A

[Losty]

Well if you think that about seatbelts you should support driving a motorbike without helmet and practicing sports without required protection. I don't think it should be legal, some people are too stupid to wear a seatbelt unless the law forces them, it may sound harsh and against freedom, but it's just a way of protecting people, some people hurt themselves unwillingly because of irresponsibility, this kind o irresponsibility can be controlled by the law.

Hard drugs shouldn't be, they cause to much addiction, the State would just be wasting human resources (I assume you're talking about the sale).

Nope I don't think any adult should be forced to wear a seatbelt or a helmet or a cup. Someone else's stupidity or irresponsibility is not a good reason to infringe on my freedom. I should be allowed to choose not to protect myself so long as I'm not harming or risking harming anyone else.
As far as the drugs thing. You can make them "illegal" but I don't think there should be any "punishment" drugs are a social issue not a criminal one. No jail time and no fines, mandatory rehab is an acceptable "consequence".

The same is said for cigarettes. It is illegal to sell cigarettes to minors.
Aside from that the sale, purchase, and use of cigarettes is legal.
The same should be said for all drugs. IMO

As a smoker I can tell you 90% of stores sell cigs to minors, nowadays a 14 year old sometimes looks like 18 . It's difficult to keep asking for ID to everyone. A

I was just talking about legalities not the amount of people who choose to break the law.
Where I live there are serious fines for selling cigarettes to minors.

[Faith No More]

Well I'm assuming assisted suicide implies someone unplugging, therefore taking a life in a cause-effect relationship of another human being. I wouldn't be comfortable do it, specially if it was a relative of mine. But if some people are fine doing it, it's ok. We should always respect the person's opinion on the matter.

From a legal perspective it matches the description of murder, even though it's not the same. Where I live it is still illegal.

And I think euthanasia shouldn't depend only on the law, each case should go to court and the decision of the court would be yes or no. I say this because in some cases we don't know if the person would consent or not, if they are in a comma for instance.

It definitely needs to be regulated, like ensuring the person is of sound mind and that it is their wishes, not someone else's, but saying so doesn't mean you necessarily disagree with the ethics of it.

[Dystopia]

Well if you think that about seatbelts you should support driving a motorbike without helmet and practicing sports without required protection. I don't think it should be legal, some people are too stupid to wear a seatbelt unless the law forces them, it may sound harsh and against freedom, but it's just a way of protecting people, some people hurt themselves unwillingly because of irresponsibility, this kind o irresponsibility can be controlled by the law.

Hard drugs shouldn't be, they cause to much addiction, the State would just be wasting human resources (I assume you're talking about the sale).

Nope I don't think any adult should be forced to wear a seatbelt or a helmet or a cup. Someone else's stupidity or irresponsibility is not a good reason to infringe on my freedom. I should be allowed to choose not to protect myself so long as I'm not harming or risking harming anyone else.
As far as the drugs thing. You can make them "illegal" but I don't think there should be any "punishment" drugs are a social issue not a criminal one. No jail time and no fines, mandatory rehab is an acceptable "consequence".

As a smoker I can tell you 90% of stores sell cigs to minors, nowadays a 14 year old sometimes looks like 18 . It's difficult to keep asking for ID to everyone. A

I was just talking about legalities not the amount of people who choose to break the law.
Where I live there are serious fines for selling cigarettes to minors.

I disagree with you on seatbelt, just think about people who forget their helmets/seatbelts because the law doesn't make it an obligation and accidentally die, leaving a family and kids behind... If making it illegal (fine) can make people be more secure, even trough force, it is a better decision. But I respect your supporting of 'freedom', I just think too much freedom isn't good

Consumption of drugs shouldn't get you in jail, mandatory rehab for cocaine or heroin (other hard drugs) sounds fair and necessary to make you function well in society. But the sales of hard drugs shouldn't be legal.

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Well I'm assuming assisted suicide implies someone unplugging, therefore taking a life in a cause-effect relationship of another human being. I wouldn't be comfortable do it, specially if it was a relative of mine. But if some people are fine doing it, it's ok. We should always respect the person's opinion on the matter.

From a legal perspective it matches the description of murder, even though it's not the same. Where I live it is still illegal.

And I think euthanasia shouldn't depend only on the law, each case should go to court and the decision of the court would be yes or no. I say this because in some cases we don't know if the person would consent or not, if they are in a comma for instance.

It definitely needs to be regulated, like ensuring the person is of sound mind and that it is their wishes, not someone else's, but saying so doesn't mean you necessarily disagree with the ethics of it.

I disagree because my ethics hierarchy (personally mine) is composed by 3 values 1 - Life 2 - Justice 3 - Freedom. Most times, I don't support anything that violates life, therefore I don't support the death penalty or euthanasia (this doesn't mean I want it illegal, I just don't approve it ethically, it is still an act for taking a life, even if done for compassion). The thing is we need to think if problems would arise, eg my professor told us euthanasia could give origin to organ trafficking and other problems like taking out the weakest members of society. Another problem, many people may want euthanasia and regret, I remember a guy in my country, he has no arms and legs, wanted to be euthanized, but after a few years he is now happy and says he regrets his former wishes.

Also no euthanasia if you are physically capable of doing it yourself, this is a logical necessity, if you are unhappy you kill yourself, don't ask for help

[Losty]

I will agree to disagree with you on the seatbelt issue.

What do you propose should be the consequence for selling hard drugs?

[Dystopia]

I will agree to disagree with you on the seatbelt issue.

What do you propose should be the consequence for selling hard drugs?

I don't know, if you corrupted lives of people, sometimes (or many times) minors, it should get you jail time. The amount of jail time depends, in my country it is not allowed over 25 years so I guess anything above 10 years would be too much. It depends on the frequency and your influence on the business, if you are a drug cartel lord it is different of being a minor ghetto dealer.

[Losty]

I will agree to disagree with you on the seatbelt issue.

What do you propose should be the consequence for selling hard drugs?

I don't know, if you corrupted lives of people, sometimes (or many times) minors, it should get you jail time. The amount of jail time depends, in my country it is not allowed over 25 years so I guess anything above 10 years would be too much. It depends on the frequency and your influence on the business, if you are a drug cartel lord it is different of being a minor ghetto dealer.

I know I usually hate copypasta but I think this is relevant.

The incarceration rate in the United States of America is the highest in the world. As of 2009, the incarceration rate was 743 per 100,000 of national population (0.743%).[2] While the United States represents about 5 percent of the world's population, it houses around 25 percent of the world's prisoners.[3][4] Imprisonment of America's 2.3 million prisoners, costing $24,000 per inmate per year, and $5.1 billion in new prison construction, consumes $60.3 billion in budget expenditures.

As of 2014 the high incarceration rates have started to modestly decline, although still remain the highest in the world.[5]

I do not support jail time for sale of drugs unless it is sale or a minor or possibly like serious trafficking (such as saying if you are caught in the possession with intent to sell or selling and you have more than X amount of drugs).

[Ravenshire]

Driving without a seat belt should get you a fine. Not jailtime

I disagree. I don't think it should be illegal at all.

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I don't need the government to protect me from myself. I am perfectly capable of deciding whether or not I wish to risk my own life while putting no one else at risk.

Amen! In a country where we can drink ourselves to death and/or smoke ourselves to death we have to be sure to buckle up!

Thank you insurance company lobbyists!

[Faith No More]

I disagree because my ethics hierarchy (personally mine) is composed by 3 values 1 - Life 2 - Justice 3 - Freedom. Most times, I don't support anything that violates life, therefore I don't support the death penalty or euthanasia (this doesn't mean I want it illegal, I just don't approve it ethically, it is still an act for taking a life, even if done for compassion). The thing is we need to think if problems would arise, eg my professor told us euthanasia could give origin to organ trafficking and other problems like taking out the weakest members of society. Another problem, many people may want euthanasia and regret, I remember a guy in my country, he has no arms and legs, wanted to be euthanized, but after a few years he is now happy and says he regrets his former wishes.

If life is at the top of your heirarchy, you should also recognize that the quality of said life is an extremely important factor. It is a fact of life that existence can become so painful that non-existence is preferrable. If you truly value life, you should value that fact and recognize that people in certain situations will have so much pain that their want to die will rise to a need.

Euthanasia is not taking a life. It is the willful relinquishing of one's own life with help.

Also no euthanasia if you are physically capable of doing it yourself, this is a logical necessity, if you are unhappy you kill yourself, don't ask for help

How about if I have been diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, but can still physically move well enough to kill myself? Do you think the ethical thing would be to refuse me the assistance of a medical professional and force me to take a much less pleasant route, like throwing myself off a building?

[Ravenshire]

Well I'm assuming assisted suicide implies someone unplugging, therefore taking a life in a cause-effect relationship of another human being.

Assisted suicide is not just "unplugging" someone from life support. If it were then that would be illegal in 49 US states and it's not. Assisted suicide is actively assisting someone who wants to die. This should be made legal in all jurisdictions for all cases of "no-hope" terminal illness. The only objections that can be made are religious ones.

I wouldn't be comfortable do it, specially if it was a relative of mine. But if some people are fine doing it, it's ok. We should always respect the person's opinion on the matter.

Have you ever watched a loved one die slowly, in excruciating agony from cancer? I watched my mom die that way. It was not fun. My brother even mentioned to me that he had considered overdosing her (mercy killing). The truly sad part is mom lived in the only state in this country that allows assisted suicide but her religiosity got in the way. She didn't have to suffer the way she did but for her delusions.

From a legal perspective it matches the description of murder, even though it's not the same. Where I live it is still illegal.

Assisted suicide and murder are not the same, legally, morally or ethically. Helping someone who wants to die, because they are going to die, but don't want to die horribly is compassionate, not criminal. Ever had to put down a pet? The only difference (as far as assisted suicide is concerned) is consent. It's wrong to make an animal suffer when there is nothing that can be done about the suffering. It's wrong to make a human suffer when there is nothing that can be done about the suffering and they want the suffering to end!

And I think euthanasia shouldn't depend only on the law, each case should go to court and the decision of the court would be yes or no. I say this because in some cases we don't know if the person would consent or not, if they are in a comma for instance.

Without consent, assisted suicide is off the table. Please stop equating euthanasia with assisted suicide. They are similar, but are not the same thing.

Court decisions on every case of assisted suicide? Please tell me you're kidding. Most people with terminal illnesses would die in agony waiting for their day in court. While I will probably live out my life in Colorado (a place I love), if I'm ever diagnosed with a "no-hope" terminal illness (unless this state wises up), I'll die in Oregon (a place I fucking hate). That way, I'll be able to end it myself, with my loved ones around me. That's the most pernicious part of assisted suicide being illegal. If you're even in attendance of the death, you'll be prosecuted. Imagine having to leave your loved one who has decided they have had enough of the agony to die alone while you have to go out and pretend you're not terribly bothered by something.

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Just saw this:

Also no euthanasia if you are physically capable of doing it yourself, this is a logical necessity, if you are unhappy you kill yourself, don't ask for help

Do you really believe the only reason people ever want to die is because they're unhappy? Really?!? Do you think my loved ones would prefer to go away while I blow my brains out and them come back and have to clean up the mess? Or do you think, just maybe, they would prefer to be with me when I go, helping to make my passing better and more comfortable and being able to say goodbye for fucks sake!

If you're depressed and suicidal, seek help. It's there. If you're dying and wish to avoid the excruciating agony along the way. Tough shit, I guess (unless you can get yourself to Oregon).