Religion's Treatment of Women

[Tiberius]

(4th November 2008 03:09)leo-rcc Wrote:  

(4th November 2008 02:59)Tiberius Wrote:  

(4th November 2008 02:17)leo-rcc Wrote:  No the brainwashing works on both male and female.

I never said it didn't.

Neither did I, I was responding to Bozo.

Ah, I see that now. My bad

[infidel666]

(4th November 2008 14:53)jules96 Wrote:  

(4th November 2008 01:08)Tiberius Wrote:  

(3rd November 2008 20:56)bozo Wrote:  Why do women of faith accept all the shit?

Brainwashing.

I think it the nature of women to want to be peacemakers and have everyone "get along."

Yay. A stereotype.

Quote:So when women are brainwashed from birth that they are inferior and must "submit" to husbands and men in general, their natural inclination is not to rock the boat. However, women have a brain, so I can't understand why women who don't question this theology (or men also.) That said, it is very hard to change beliefs that you are taught from birth and that much of society around the world reinforces. I don't understand why women's groups such as NOW and others don't make this more of an issue. There is a war on women - watch the news and shows like Nancy Grace, etc. to get an idea of all the women each day who are murdered or go missing. I live in SC where we are 1st or 2nd in the number of domestic violence cases in the nation. We are also one of the most religious states in the nation - think there's a connection?

Stockholm syndrome?

Quote:I have been told over my lifetime that I am a very intelligent person and I have a Master's Degree to help prove it. Yet when I have been to have my car worked on, some high-school drop-out working at the local garage looks and me and talks to me as if I'm barely intelligent enough to be able to drive a car.

Stop smiling at them.

Quote:Not only are the women taught from birth that they are inferior, the men are also taught it from birth. We are also supposed to be eternal virgins, but turn into red-hot mamas during sex, then afterword we are sluts. I also think this idea comes from religious beliefs.

I think it comes from conflicting biological imperatives. From nature's perspective, diversity is the ultimate good., so it helps for men to have lots of sex partners. But it is also helpful if a male protects and raises certain of his children. A male evolved to fulfill both those imperatives is going to have an extremely complex mindset that is going to prejudice any religion he dreams up. A woman evaolved to fit in that framework might also have a weirdo mindset. But I think it is safe to say that all the religious myths about Eve, Persophone, Pandora, etc. were concocted by men.

Quote:So... all you atheist and agnostic men go out and promote the belief that women are equal and intelligent

Umm ...

[Daystar]

(3rd November 2008 15:34)jules96 Wrote:  I don't know how many of you are women in this forum, but I really get angry about the way that religion has blamed women for various things (Eve caused Adam to eat the forbidden fruit, so from then on, all women would pay for this sin by having menstrual periods and giving birth to babies - definitely severe punishment!) and the way women are supposed to behave and are treated because of religion. Mary Magadeline was a prostitue, etc.

First of all let me just say that it is, more often than not, true that religion abuses and misrepresents its position in order to keep women down. It also will tend to do this with race, sexuality and children. There should be a distinction between this abuse and religion itself, and the Bible's having been misrepresented itself regarding the matter due to that abuse.

The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil, not that money itself is evil. Religion is like that. As much as I personally loath religion I know that people screws religion up more than religion screws people up.

Mary Magdalene wasn't a prostitute, and I suppose that is what you meant by including her in examples of women being treated poorly over time by religion?

Lets just consider women in the Bible. The Hebrew term for woman is ishshah which literally means a female man and it can also be rendered as wife. The Greek gyneis is the same. Eve wasn't created to be simply a helpmate, but a compliment and companion to Adam.

They were prophetesses like Miriam (Exodus 15:20), Noadiah Nehemiah 4:16), Anna (Luke 2:36), as well as prophetess and Judge like Deborah (Judges 4:4) and teachers Psalm 68:11 / Titus 2:3 - 5).

Women were crucial in spreading the good news as disciples, though some belittle women and their part because the man (husband) is head of the woman (wife) but this is primarily due to abuse and misrepresentation mentioned earlier.

Here is the way it works. Jehovah is the head of Christ, and Christ is head over the man (of the congregation), husband is head of the wife. This doesn't mean beneath one or the other in an abusive or disrespectful way. (1 Corinthians 11:3 / Ephesians 5:33)

[Jason Jarred]

(6th November 2008 05:22)Daystar Wrote:  Here is the way it works. Jehovah is the head of Christ, and Christ is head over the man (of the congregation), husband is head of the wife. This doesn't mean beneath one or the other in an abusive or disrespectful way. (1 Corinthians 11:3 / Ephesians 5:33)

If it doesn't mean beneath or subservient to, then explain to us what it means to be 'head' of somebody.

[jules96]

(6th November 2008 05:56)Jason Jarred Wrote:  

(6th November 2008 05:22)Daystar Wrote:  Here is the way it works. Jehovah is the head of Christ, and Christ is head over the man (of the congregation), husband is head of the wife. This doesn't mean beneath one or the other in an abusive or disrespectful way. (1 Corinthians 11:3 / Ephesians 5:33)

If it doesn't mean beneath or subservient to, then explain to us what it means to be 'head' of somebody.

Excellent point! If Jehovah is the head of Christ, is not Jehovah "ruler" or on some higher level than Christ? And if Christ is the head over the man, is Christ not on a more powerful level (over) the man? What does that say about the husband being the head (over) the wife?

---

(6th November 2008 05:22)Daystar Wrote:  

(3rd November 2008 15:34)jules96 Wrote:  I don't know how many of you are women in this forum, but I really get angry about the way that religion has blamed women for various things (Eve caused Adam to eat the forbidden fruit, so from then on, all women would pay for this sin by having menstrual periods and giving birth to babies - definitely severe punishment!) and the way women are supposed to behave and are treated because of religion. Mary Magadeline was a prostitue, etc.

First of all let me just say that it is, more often than not, true that religion abuses and misrepresents its position in order to keep women down. It also will tend to do this with race, sexuality and children. There should be a distinction between this abuse and religion itself, and the Bible's having been misrepresented itself regarding the matter due to that abuse.

The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil, not that money itself is evil. Religion is like that. As much as I personally loath religion I know that people screws religion up more than religion screws people up.

Mary Magdalene wasn't a prostitute, and I suppose that is what you meant by including her in examples of women being treated poorly over time by religion?

Lets just consider women in the Bible. The Hebrew term for woman is ishshah which literally means a female man and it can also be rendered as wife. The Greek gyneis is the same. Eve wasn't created to be simply a helpmate, but a compliment and companion to Adam.

They were prophetesses like Miriam (Exodus 15:20), Noadiah Nehemiah 4:16), Anna (Luke 2:36), as well as prophetess and Judge like Deborah (Judges 4:4) and teachers Psalm 68:11 / Titus 2:3 - 5).

Women were crucial in spreading the good news as disciples, though some belittle women and their part because the man (husband) is head of the woman (wife) but this is primarily due to abuse and misrepresentation mentioned earlier.

Here is the way it works. Jehovah is the head of Christ, and Christ is head over the man (of the congregation), husband is head of the wife. This doesn't mean beneath one or the other in an abusive or disrespectful way. (1 Corinthians 11:3 / Ephesians 5:33)

If it is man that is misrepresenting religion, why aren't there more "religious" people out there rebutting these people who are misrepresenting it? Why is the misrepresentation so prevalent, not only in our own country, but worldwide? And what does it say about religion if so many of the people who are representing religion promote this ideology, while so many stand back in silence or agreement?

[chatpilot]

Well,the bible does teach that women should be subject to man since she came from mans rib and was created after man.If you read the bible in it's entirety you will see that women in the scriptures are always treated like second class citizens.Considering the source of the scriptures (the middle east) it comes as no surprise to me.Since in most of those middle eastern countries women continue to be regarded as servants to their men and are not even allowed to get an education.That just goes to show that those that wrote the various books of the bible are nothing more than male chauvanistic pigs just as their culture has taught them to be.The ironic thing about religion is that statistically women are its (religion) most faithful adherents.

Genesis 2:22,23
22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Genesis 3:16
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

So according to this last verse as part of the curse that god bestowed upon women,one of them was that man shall rule her and she will be obligated to be subservient to him.

[Daystar]

(6th November 2008 12:42)jules96 Wrote:  If Jehovah is the head of Christ, is not Jehovah "ruler" or on some higher level than Christ? And if Christ is the head over the man, is Christ not on a more powerful level (over) the man? What does that say about the husband being the head (over) the wife?

Is that what it is all about? Power? Christ was the perfect example. He was humble before his God, Jehovah, doing God's will perfectly and washing the feet of his disciples.

A system of headship had to be established just the same as the parents are in charge of their children. Abuse of the system doesn't reflect poorly upon the arrangement but the people who abuse it.

(6th November 2008 05:22)Daystar Wrote:  If it is man that is misrepresenting religion, why aren't there more "religious" people out there rebutting these people who are misrepresenting it? Why is the misrepresentation so prevalent, not only in our own country, but worldwide? And what does it say about religion if so many of the people who are representing religion promote this ideology, while so many stand back in silence or agreement?

I loath religion because it tends to promote blind adherence. It dumbs down its own teachings and distorts them according to the power which the adherents blindly grant its leaders. So to answer your questions with one word - ignorance.

---

Chatpilot, it sounds like you are venting. I can relate to that, I myself vent from time to time.

Let me ask you a question - when you read the Bible did you ever read of God listening to the advice or suggestions of a woman?

[chatpilot]

Daystar I dont see how stating some simple facts in my last post is venting.I am using your very own useless book of knowledge to make my point.But I see that only works when you use it.Actually to answer your question,yes there have been some times in the bible where god listened to a womans suggestions and at times used a woman in his service.But those times are few and far between.

The gist is my statement is that generally women are considered second class citizens.And I used your own scriptures to point that out.So tell me,how is that venting?

[HalcyonicTrust]

(7th November 2008 15:15)Daystar Wrote:  I loath religion because it tends to promote blind adherence. It dumbs down its own teachings and distorts them according to the power which the adherents blindly grant its leaders. So to answer your questions with one word - ignorance.

---

Of course we're all ignorant to some extent. And sorry to tell you but, taking fictional books like the bible as fact, IS indeed very ignorant. As rejecting evolution is.
"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance" - Socrates.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance" - Socrates.

[jules96]