Spare the rod, spoil the child

[Lemonvariable72]

Me and my old man never stopped having fist fights till I moved out. I love the man but we really piss each other piss.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Couple of thoughts.

First off, there is a world of difference between a slap across the legs to end a dispute or underline a point, and the sort of thing some of y'all are talking about. I think there is a middle ground between child abuse (like locking a child in a basement or hitting them with a closed fist) and complete hands off parenting.

We decided at the getgo that we would not smack. I think with hindsight that was a mistake.

For EG my daughter had a meltdown over breakfast this morning because, pig that I am, I made her eat it all. This involved her yelling at me, me explaining calmly that it was unacceptable for her to speak to me that way. Her continuing to yell, me warning her that if she continued there would be a consequence. Her continuing, me taking some of her craft things and putting them in the bin. Her getting hysterical, me shouting back at her. Continue for about 15 minutes until she finally ate the F***ing wheatabix.

We got there in the end without violence. However it was a miserable morning for all concerned. Personally, My parents smacked very rarely, back of legs, bottom or palm of hand. But I would not have dreamt of yelling at my dad. That argument would never have taken place.

Sometimes it feels that the entirely non violent approach makes it worse for the kids because when they push for the boundry (and kids do love and need boundries) it is much harder to establish your positione so the argument goes on longer to the detriment of all.

I think there is a place for smacking in childrearing.

[Marsellus Wallace]

Couple of thoughts.

First off, there is a world of difference between a slap across the legs to end a dispute or underline a point, and the sort of thing some of y'all are talking about. I think there is a middle ground between child abuse (like locking a child in a basement or hitting them with a closed fist) and complete hands off parenting.

We decided at the getgo that we would not smack. I think with hindsight that was a mistake.

For EG my daughter had a meltdown over breakfast this morning because, pig that I am, I made her eat it all. This involved her yelling at me, me explaining calmly that it was unacceptable for her to speak to me that way. Her continuing to yell, me warning her that if she continued there would be a consequence. Her continuing, me taking some of her craft things and putting them in the bin. Her getting hysterical, me shouting back at her. Continue for about 15 minutes until she finally ate the F***ing wheatabix.

We got there in the end without violence. However it was a miserable morning for all concerned. Personally, My parents smacked very rarely, back of legs, bottom or palm of hand. But I would not have dreamt of yelling at my dad. That argument would never have taken place.

Sometimes it feels that the entirely non violent approach makes it worse for the kids because when they push for the boundry (and kids do love and need boundries) it is much harder to establish your positione so the argument goes on longer to the detriment of all.

I think there is a place for smacking in childrearing.

I agree in what you're saying , but its the line between a slap or beating the shit out of him that people don't see and if you say ok for that little slap , what says I won't do it twice or trice or 50 times.

I think its fair enough tho that if you raise you child in an awful way your child will grow up to be awful to you, but if you raise your child good, you'll definitely get rewarded with a person who respects you and kind to you .

[Jacob(smooth)]

I agree in what you're saying , but its the line between a slap or beating the shit out of him that people don't see and if you say ok for that little slap , what says I won't do it twice or trice or 50 times.

Yeah, that's one reason we went with the no smacking policy . There is the danger of creep or escalation. Although most people I know grew up with parents who smacked but stayed the right side of the line...

Also my daughter told us once she was going to report us to the police and have us arrested for giving her lamb casserole for dinner (which THAT DAY she didn't like). Our neighbors are both Police officers. I was so tempted to ask one of them to pop around in uniform and take her complaint down!

I should add that both my children are some of the nicest, most polite kids you will ever meet. But by God it takes some work. Parenting, the hardest ob in the world and the one you don't get a lick of training for!!

[rexbeccarox]

Jacob, do you think smacking would have made your morning any better?

I'm sorry, but violence for submission's sake isn't the way, be it physical or verbal. Spanking (or yelling at, or demeaning, or swatting) a kid is essentially just telling him or her that you have physical or mental dominance over them. It's not even really discipline. It just instills a symbolic fear, no matter how you go about it. IMO, discipline should be a learning experience, and kids don't learn while they're being humiliated.

[Esquilax]

Yeah, there's a difference between getting the bad behavior to stop, and getting the child to learn why they shouldn't do it. My dad could sure as hell get me to stop behaving in ways he didn't want me to, boy howdy, but the end result was fear during my childhood, hatred during my teens, and dislike now that I'm an adult.

Meanwhile, my mum taught me so much more, when she wasn't around the old man. I'm not going to pretend I was the perfect kid, but I was a hell of a lot better than some because the person who taught me my values did so by respecting my intelligence enough to use it against me, rather than just smacking me. This was a woman who would actually physically leave when I had a tantrum as a little lad, even if we were in public. I stopped doing it, because what's the point? No attention, no power to the antics, pointless waste of energy. She would always just be around the corner, keeping an eye on things, but the point was made. I knew to work within the system, rather than trying to circumvent it.

Ironically, the stuff that really got me off the rails, in some pretty bad (but still remarkably tame, looking back) ways, was the strict shit. But that's a story for elsewhere.

[atheist04330]

Yeah.. weetabix.. i would not eat that shit too... Try not feeding your kids a brick and maybe they will want to fucking eat...

[Jacob(smooth)]

Jacob, do you think smacking would have made your morning any better?

YES. It would have ended the argument right then and there.

I'm sorry, but violence for submission's sake isn't the way, be it physical or verbal. Spanking (or yelling at, or demeaning, or swatting) a kid is essentially just telling him or her that you have physical or mental dominance over them. It's not even really discipline. It just instills a symbolic fear, no matter how you go about it. IMO, discipline should be a learning experience, and kids don't learn while they're being humiliated.

I think its very important that kids know that their parents DO have dominance over them. There is a recent fashion to treat children like little adults and they are simply not. Sometimes you have to be able to say "you will do this because I know better than you and I say you must". More than that, I think that they WANT their authority figures to be dominant. It gives them a sense of security, that someone is in control. They don't have to understand the world because there are people who protect them from it.

---

Jacob, do you think smacking would have made your morning any better?

YES. It would have ended the argument right then and there.

I'm sorry, but violence for submission's sake isn't the way, be it physical or verbal. Spanking (or yelling at, or demeaning, or swatting) a kid is essentially just telling him or her that you have physical or mental dominance over them. It's not even really discipline. It just instills a symbolic fear, no matter how you go about it. IMO, discipline should be a learning experience, and kids don't learn while they're being humiliated.

I think its very important that kids know that their parents DO have dominance over them. There is a recent fashion to treat children like little adults and they are simply not. Sometimes you have to be able to say "you will do this because I know better than you and I say you must". More than that, I think that they WANT their authority figures to be dominant. It gives them a sense of security, that someone is in control. They don't have to understand the world because there are people who protect them from it.

Yeah.. weetabix.. i would not eat that shit too... Try not feeding your kids a brick and maybe they will want to fucking eat...

I agree. Nasty shit. But they DO get a choice and that was what she chose . The other options being cornflakes, rice crispies, cheerios or toast.

It had fruit in it if that helps.

[atheist04330]

Ok.. you did not sate that..

[Losty]

I don't like the idea of teaching kids blind obedience. Ever. Not even to their own parents. Pushing your limits and questioning authority is a sign of intelligence and independence. It's fucking frustrating as hell, and there are consequences for actions, but never hitting, not in my house not ever in my house.