My Youth Pastor's Pleading Letter to Me

[Crossless2.0]

Ask your pastor if he'll meet you to smoke a joint and discuss the matter in person.

To each his own, but I would never waste my weed on a youth pastor -- not when there are people who are actually interesting I could smoke with instead.

[Anomalocaris]

So, I don't know if this is the right place to post this but the church of my youth has found out about my atheism via social media and has made a spirited attempt to bring me back into the fold... bleakly I might add, but it's about as IN MY FACE as I can possibly stand.

I received one hell of an email this evening from the youth pastor who made led me to accept the Lord when I was a mentally vulnerable 12 year old.

I want to repsond in a way that will at least get him to think. He's so far gone I'm not sure that he can see reason, but if people had given up on me I wouldn't be able to live in my current state of enlightenment. He wrote a frickin' novel, but this is the jist of it... how would you respond, if at all??

(he calls me Amy, which everyone who's lazy resorts to)

---

I want you to know that I'm with you on religion. Yes...you read that right. I believe religion to be man's attempt at trying to figure out something bigger than himself. I think I get religion...I get as to WHY so many people embrace it...but to me...it's LIFE-LESS. I am NOT about religion, but I am about a relationship. I know...that probably sounds cheesy to you...some one liner you've probably heard me or someone else say in the past. But it's a true description of how I see GOD. I don't think GOD wants us to be about religion...I think He wants us, and has always wanted us/humanity, to be in a RELATIONSHIP with Him.

WHY?

Because He loves us.

He love us...He loves us...He loves us. I believe there is a GOD/Creator, I believe creation got a little proud one day and said, "I don't need you God. I can handle this on my own." And God said "Ok, I wont make you be in a relationship with me." And at that moment, there came a division between God and His creation. But God didn't stop when that division arose-(and He wasn't surprised by it either)-because at the same moment when creation walked away from Him, He began His plan to bring His creation back into a life-giving relationship with Him.

Now that "reconciliation-plan" involved people. He chose the Hebrews to be an example to the rest of creation as to what it looks like to be in a life-giving relationship with Him. He chose men like Noah, Moses, and David. He chose women like Esther, Deborah, and Bathsheba. But Amy, you and I both know that PEOPLE...are messed up. We are all hurting...we always have been. And the crazy thing is...that GOD has always known this too...but yet He still chose to use people to bring about this "reconciliation-plan"...why? I don't know, but maybe it has to do with people just needing to see GOD in other people so that it makes more sense.

Eventually, at the right place, and at the right time, GOD said, "That's it,it's time for the most important part of my plan. It's time they see ME, and see WHO I AM, and HOW MUCH I LOVE THEM." And that's when GOD became His own creation, 100% man and 100% God...JESUS entered the scene. Jesus came to do what we/creation could never do...and that was to destroy the DIVISION between us and the Creator. He blew it out of the water when He died on the cross, and when He beat death three days later. He proved that if He can beat death...then He can beat the death in our lives as well...the BIG death, and the LITTLE deaths we die everyday. Jesus has the power to help us, to heal us "hurting-people", and then He still chooses to use us to help point other hurting people to Him.

WHY?

Because He loves us.

He loves you Amy. It might annoy you to read it over and over again...but He loves you. He made you...He knows how you tick...and as crazy as it sounds Amy, I believe He's proud of you. Because I don't believe you are "walking away" or "denying your faith"...I believe that you are GROWING...growing more and more into the woman He has created you to be. A woman who has grown to a point of realizing that there must be something more than just "being good"...something more than just "religion". And I believe you're right...there is something more. And when I came to the point that I believe you have come to...I walked away with this...

Religion sucks...the life out of you. But a RELATIONSHIP with GOD...gives life.

So that's what I'm about. I'm about figuring out more and more what this relationship with God is all about...not the religious stuff. And the reason WHY I am about this...

...is because He loves me. He loves me like no other. I know, you have every right to believe I'm just big softy who probably still believes in Santa too. :-) But seriously Amy, I'm not now, nor have I ever been, compelled to tell you something just because I was paid to or told to. I have only, and I am only now...sharing with you all of this because of ONE REASON. Because He loves me, He loves me, He loves me.

Not because I'm a man.
Not because I'm an American.
Not because I'm white.
Not because I'm middle class.
Not because I'm straight
Not because I'm a "good guy", and
Not because I'm a pastor.

He loves me because I'm His creation. (Period).

And He loves you too...for the same reason.

---

I think I barfed in my mouth slightly. He's a genuine, heartfelt guy, but he's choosing to feel rather than think. How can I reason with that?? I just don't know.

Thoughts?

It depends. Do you have spare time and do you want to reciprocate a heart felt gesture with a sincere reply?

[Ravenshire]

Ask your pastor if he'll meet you to smoke a joint and discuss the matter in person.

To each his own, but I would never waste my weed on a youth pastor -- not when there are people who are actually interesting I could smoke with instead.

Oh, I don't know. If he's never been high before and is doing it just to save a soul, it could be quite entertaining. Especially if he gets all paranoid.

[c172]

Not because I'm a man.
Not because I'm an American.
Not because I'm white.
Not because I'm middle class.
Not because I'm straight
Not because I'm a "good guy", and
Not because I'm a pastor.

He loves me because I'm His creation. (Period).

And He loves you too...for the same reason.

[/hide]

I think I barfed in my mouth slightly. He's a genuine, heartfelt guy, but he's choosing to feel rather than think. How can I reason with that?? I just don't know.

Thoughts?
[/quote]

I've got nothin'. But that's kinda creepy that he'd list all those reasons why he could possibly be loved. I wonder if he loves himself because he's white, straight, American, and all that jazz.

I wonder if the dude looks like a creepy 90's alt-rocker.

[Amalynne0]

I've got nothin'. But that's kinda creepy that he'd list all those reasons why he could possibly be loved. I wonder if he loves himself because he's white, straight, American, and all that jazz.

I wonder if the dude looks like a creepy 90's alt-rocker.

No, he rather looks more like the "Jesus is awesome" minister from Rev, as seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGfsd03KZAQ

[Mr Greene]

It's also a very long winded way of saying "it's not a religion, I have a personal relationship with god" which is about as legit as "it's not masturbation, I have a personal relationship with my fingers"...

Might I quote you on that? It's quite good.

Be my guest, I wasn't being original...

[Rabb Allah]

I love this sort of stuff because I like to see how serious people take their religion. You should see how Muslims handle a murtad(apostate). It is hilarious as their pleas only serve to make the person hate Islam even more.

I like telling people about my apostacy from Christianity because it is a good way to judge character and let me break other people's faith for my own amusement. I am a sadist in this regard but it keeps me going on gloomy days. If there is a god I should not be able to refute every single argument for his existence. Yet this is the case every single time, not a single argument comes up. My own atheism is reaffirmed every time a theist opens his or hers mouth. Knowing that this person emotionally feels bad for me is also a moment for me to turn tables and inform the individual of how bad I feel for him or her.

You should do what I do and make an emotional appeal to atheism since the only reason why people stick to religion is because of emotional attachments. People think Atheists become atheists out of anger or resentment but for people like me it is not the case. We become Atheists because we realize the lies of religion and want to better our lives.

I have entirely flipped the argument for morality upon the theists since their morality is just legal behavior.

[ignoramus]

Agree with Rabb. I will extrapolate further and suggest that even if the holy books weren't full of bullshit, contradictions and telling us how to be moral, many of us still wouldn't be religious because an old book still isn't proof of any skydaddy.
It wouldn't make evolution and DNA any less obvious.

[Rabb Allah]

You would be surprised how theists and especially Christians handle the Argument for Morality when it is the atheist accusing the religious person of having no morality. When the Atheist feel sorry for the religious individual it is a sight to behold.

When the Atheists makes accusations about the Muslim telling him that he/she is born an Atheist and knows deep down there is no god. This is the reverse of how Muslims feel towards atheists.

Coming from a bit of a Satanic phase I understood the power of reverse psychology and inversion. This is something Satanists love using as their whole shtick is to invert Christian mythology. When you begin inverting apologetic claims and theological assumptions the results are unbeatable.

This is why I advocate not for the abandonment of religion but the abandonment of theism and the recreation of religion in a secular fashion. Religions will become secular organizations that cater to the needs of non-theists of all sorts. The power of inverting ideals that have emotional attachments is amazing. The effect it has as a tool against religious minds is utterly outstanding.

As an Atheist Animistic Idolater I strong recommend applying inversion to your arguments against theism

[Lemonvariable72]

OOH just let me sink my teeth into this.

Quote:
I want you to know that I'm with you on religion. Undecided Yes...you read that right. I believe religion to be man's attempt at trying to figure out something bigger than himself. I think I get religion...I get as to WHY so many people embrace it...but to me...it's LIFE-LESS. I am NOT about religion, but I am about a relationship. I know...that probably sounds cheesy to you...some one liner you've probably heard me or someone else say in the past. But it's a true description of how I see GOD. I don't think GOD wants us to be about religion...I think He wants us, and has always wanted us/humanity, to be in a RELATIONSHIP with Him.

Yes, Yes he loves you but he still has this list of codes for you too follow or he'll burn you. What is a religion if it is not a bunch of people claiming a relationship a with divine being that has a bunch of rules for us?

WHY?

Because He loves us.

He loves me but he can't even shake my hand and look me in the eye to say it.

He love us...He loves us...He loves us. I believe there is a GOD/Creator, I believe creation got a little proud one day and said, "I don't need you God. I can handle this on my own." And God said "Ok, I wont make you be in a relationship with me." And at that moment, there came a division between God and His creation.

What version of genesis did you read? or did you pull that out of the quran or something? Thats not what the bible says at all. In the version of genesis I read the division between man and god came when the fall occured. Eve did eat the fruit out of pride, she was tricked, told to follow rules she could not possibly understand and left in the with a talking snake that god knew would trick her.
But God didn't stop when that division arose-(and He wasn't surprised by it either)-because at the same moment when creation walked away from Him, He began His plan to bring His creation back into a life-giving relationship with Him.

Now that "reconciliation-plan" involved people. He chose the Hebrews to be an example to the rest of creation as to what it looks like to be in a life-giving relationship with Him.

Why the fuck would a god play favorites like that if he wants to get all of man kind to follow him? To be honest sounds like a bunch of tribesman looking for a excuse to kill other people. On top of that why the hebrews? A bunch of illiterate bronze tribesmen? Why no china where people can read and write? Why in the indus valley where they already building great cities?

He chose men like Noah

The guy that fucked his whole fmaily pretty much?

, Moses,

The genocidal lunatic that nearly erased an entire culture from existance.

and David

The genocidal lunatic that did erase the existence of a entire culture.

He chose women like Esther

The involuntarily chosen trophy wife? Well to give her credit she is better then the rest of the list so far.

, Deborah,

A prophet with about 2 lines of dialogue.

and Bathsheba.

The only thing I recall her doing of her own accord is taking a bath. The bible treats her like a object when it treats her at all.
Here lety me make a better list of people admirable people okay?
Hypatia of alexandria- Often considered to be the last great greek thinker, she was the curator of the library of alexandria. Also known for her opposition to christian foundmentalism, she was martyred by Saint Cyrus.
Elizabeth I- Some would call her the greatest monarch in english history, she led england to become a first rate power and key player in european culture as under her england made some the greatest cultural and scientific discovery to date.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali- Having fled from her home land she is now one of the most articulate and well spoken modern supporters of human rights. She still continues to speak out after after extremists left her a death threat inside the dagger they buried in her friends chest in downtown copenhagen.
Take these women for role models, not the prettied up trophy wives of the bible.

But Amy, you and I both know that PEOPLE...are messed up. Undecided We are all hurting...we always have been. And the crazy thing is...that GOD has always known this too...but yet He still chose to use people to bring about this "reconciliation-plan"...why? I don't know, but maybe it has to do with people just needing to see GOD in other people so that it makes more sense.

No whats really messed up is that your saying "accept god and your problem disappear" Which is fucking horseshit, god ain't gonna get a man work so that he can eat, and sure as shit aint gonna give a lady birth control. Infact I find the whole statement of yours rather paradoxically considering that there has been more horror in history because of a belief in god then any other belief in history. I am sure anyone else with a knowledge of black history or the historical treatment of homosexuals can agree.

Eventually, at the right place, and at the right time, GOD said, "That's it,it's time for the most important part of my plan. It's time they see ME, and see WHO I AM, and HOW MUCH I LOVE THEM." And that's when GOD became His own creation, 100% man and 100% God...JESUS entered the scene. Jesus came to do what we/creation could never do...and that was to destroy the DIVISION between us and the Creator. He blew it out of the water when He died on the cross, and when He beat death three days later.

What a coincidence, so did horus, mithra and dionysus. Hell I think they even tried to claim alexander was born of a virgin (a joke for the history geeks)

He proved that if He can beat death...then He can beat the death in our lives as well...the BIG death, and the LITTLE deaths we die everyday. Jesus has the power to help us, to heal us "hurting-people", and then He still chooses to use us to help point other hurting people to Him.

Then why does he allow good to die horrible deaths they never deserved?

WHY?

Because He loves us.

If he loves then why would he burn me in a lake of fire if I don't love him back? Mr. Pastor have you ever experienced love? I'm guessing you haven't if you believe what the god of the bible feels for you is called love. Let me tell you about love. I have a ex fiance, and we had a horrid relationship where she did terrible thing to me, but yet I love her. I stll miss her today, even though she has moved on with her life doesnt love me back. I would cut my own hands off before I tortured her, unlike your god.

He loves you Amy.

It aint love

It might annoy you to read it over and over again...but He loves you

Saying it agian and agian doesnt make it true

He made you...He knows how you tick...and as crazy as it sounds Amy, I believe He's proud of you. Because I don't believe you are "walking away" or "denying your faith"...I believe that you are GROWING...growing more and more into the woman He has created you to be.

So he created to blaspheme by being a atheist?
You realize that means he basically sending her to hell for being the way he made. You do know that rejecting god is the unforgivable sin, or did youread a different book?

A woman who has grown to a point of realizing that there must be something more than just "being good"...something more than just "religion". And I believe you're right...there is something more. And when I came to the point that I believe you have come to...I walked away with this...
Religion sucks...the life out of you. But a RELATIONSHIP with GOD...gives life.

No you fucking didn't, its clear you never came close to the point she has reached, else you would have a real job. Hell the more you talk about your relationship with god the more you sound like a battered wife.

So that's what I'm about. I'm about figuring out more and more what this relationship with God is all about...not the religious stuff. And the reason WHY I am about this...

I love how you say I'm not about religion I'm about a relationship with god when believing you have a relationship with the almighty is a center piece of the christian religion. Tell me, if your all talking to the same guy, why are there 34,000 different denomination. Not to mention the fact the christian I talk to contradict each other constantly

...is because He loves me. He loves me like no other.

Just don't be late with his supper.

I know, you have every right to believe I'm just big softy who probably still believes in Santa too. :-) But seriously Amy, I'm not now, nor have I ever been, compelled to tell you something just because I was paid to or told to.

No your just a professional pastor preaching a book that tells you to preach like a 100 times

I have only, and I am only now...sharing with you all of this because of ONE REASON. Because He loves me, He loves me, He loves me.

Just make sure you put 2 sugar in his coffee not three, you know how mad he gets when you make mistakes.

Not because I'm a man.
Not because I'm an American.
Not because I'm white.
Not because I'm middle class.
Not because I'm straight
Not because I'm a "good guy", and
Not because I'm a pastor.

He loves me because I'm His creation. (Period).


And He loves you too...for the same reason.

Got any proof he created you? I mean proof he did it not allah or krishna or glooscap.