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The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
#11
RE: The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
You don't have to sell your car to receive food stamps....make and model doesn't determine whether or not you get public assistance (where does this idea come from?). WIC is much more lenient, it was an easier sell, pregnant women and children are a great screen to hide behind when handing out cash to your corporate donors.

In the case of farm bill based assistance, the government does exist for the benefit of the people , it's just that you and I (and the people on benefits) aren't "the people" being referred to.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#12
RE: The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
(July 19, 2014 at 6:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You don't have to sell your car to receive food stamps....make and model doesn't determine whether or not you get public assistance (where does this idea come from?). WIC is much more lenient, it was an easier sell, pregnant women and children are a great screen to hide behind when handing out cash to your corporate donors.

In the case of farm bill based assistance, the government does exist for the benefit of the people , it's just that you and I (and the people on benefits) aren't "the people" being referred to.

The fair market value of a car over $4650 is counted toward your resources in determining SNAP eligibility.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/facts-about-snap
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#13
RE: The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
(July 19, 2014 at 5:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Oh, IDK, my wife and I were on assistance for a few years after a particularly bad year for my business. No man's an island, and there's no shame in admitting that you reached - and ultimately faltered. It's a rough world out there. Chances are you aren't really "taking care of yourself" quite as much as you think you are anyway. I can say with certainty that if you're an american, a great many people are subsidizing every level of your existence.....so any pride you have in that, and any shame you feel is appropriate when one fails to take advantage of that; shaky - at best. Downright shitty, at worst.

QFT.

I've had assistance (SNAP) myself, for a brief period. I didn't feel the slightest bit of shame because I've been a taxpaying worker since the age of 16. I am entitled to benefit from what I've been paying into for half my life, and all the more when you consider that most of that tax money has gone to corporate welfare, which is unjustifiable, and the military, which gets vastly more than it needs.

I absolutely do not agree that people should feel shame. The vast majority of people don't choose to be poor and starving. Those who would shame the poor needing help should be far more ashamed of themselves than those who are getting the help. It's a lot easier not to be an asshole than it is to change your economic status.

And, I do absolutely agree with the idea of a guaranteed minimum income, because who deserves to have basic necessities is not a question we have the luxury of asking when we clearly have enough for everybody.
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#14
RE: The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
(July 19, 2014 at 6:26 pm)Heywood Wrote: The fair market value of a car over $4650 is counted toward your resources in determining SNAP eligibility.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/facts-about-snap
You should have kept reading. No..no, scratch that - it's directly above the portion you quoted. If you have two cars, and only one person in the household - yeah, you might have to sell one. Then you can reapply, immediately. Or, you can -try- to sell it, and determine that you are unable to get anything for it, for whatever reason.

Quote:Licensed vehicles are NOT counted if they are:

used for income-producing purposes,
annually producing income consistent with their fair market value,
needed for long distance travel for work (other than daily commute),
used as the home,
needed to transport a physically disabled household member,
needed to carry most of the household's fuel or water, or
if the household has little equity in the vehicle (because of money owed on the vehicle, it would bring no more than $1,500 if sold).
Remember, assistance is a vehicle - and they want as many people as possible to qualify for that vehicle. That's how they make the case for additional funds. The wife and I both have nice cars, and we had to climb back over $55k(ish..don't quote me on the pennies) a year before we lost our benefits.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#15
RE: The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
(July 19, 2014 at 6:38 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: And, I do absolutely agree with the idea of a guaranteed minimum income, because who deserves to have basic necessities is not a question we have the luxury of asking when we clearly have enough for everybody.

Just for the record I don't think the amount of the universal basic income should be predicated on what people need, but rather on what the government can afford. People might still need to work or starve/freeze. You can't tax too much lest you disincentive production.

Now what that amount of basic income is.....I don't know....I'd have to give it a lot more thought. I do think it wouldn't be very long at all before most people could live quite well off universal basic income. Automation is coming faster and faster. I have this opinion that the easier it is to produce wealth via automation the more you can tax it while only minimally disincentizing production.

Since the universal basic income would replace social security I would look there as a starting point. Retires should not see a drop in income because of the implementation of a universal basic income.

(July 19, 2014 at 6:50 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(July 19, 2014 at 6:26 pm)Heywood Wrote: The fair market value of a car over $4650 is counted toward your resources in determining SNAP eligibility.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/facts-about-snap
You should have kept reading. No..no, scratch that - it's directly above the portion you quoted. If you have two cars, and only one person in the household - yeah, you might have to sell one. Then you can reapply, immediately. Or, you can -try- to sell it, and determine that you are unable to get anything for it, for whatever reason.

Quote:Licensed vehicles are NOT counted if they are:

used for income-producing purposes,
annually producing income consistent with their fair market value,
needed for long distance travel for work (other than daily commute),
used as the home,
needed to transport a physically disabled household member,
needed to carry most of the household's fuel or water, or
if the household has little equity in the vehicle (because of money owed on the vehicle, it would bring no more than $1,500 if sold).
Remember, assistance is a vehicle - and they want as many people as possible to qualify for that vehicle. That's how they make the case for additional funds. The wife and I both have nice cars, and we had to climb back over $55k(ish..don't quote me on the pennies) a year before we lost our benefits.

the household in question only had one person working(actually receiving some sort of maternity benefits). They had two cars....they would have had to sell one of them.
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#16
RE: The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
I'd like you to take a look at the wealthiest states, ostensibly the most productive - and their tax rates. Now I want you to take a look at the poorest and their tax rates? What does that tell you about how taxes effect productivity?

Your best bet, is to make your money in a state with high tax rates then shelter it in a state with low tax rates.

Quote:the household in question only had one person working(actually receiving some sort of maternity benefits). They had two cars....they would have had to sell one of them.
IP Address: Logged
The car put their gross assets over the limit? It's not about whether you actually have the car Heywood..or even how many you have....
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#17
RE: The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
(July 19, 2014 at 7:11 pm)Heywood Wrote:
(July 19, 2014 at 6:38 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: And, I do absolutely agree with the idea of a guaranteed minimum income, because who deserves to have basic necessities is not a question we have the luxury of asking when we clearly have enough for everybody.

Just for the record I don't think the amount of the universal basic income should be predicated on what people need, but rather on what the government can afford. People might still need to work or starve/freeze. You can't tax too much lest you disincentive production.

People who are dead from a lack of basic necessities typically don't have a lot of incentive to work. People who are suffering because they have to choose between necessities are naturally less productive.

Paying extra taxes to ensure that the entire population has its basic needs met is good for everybody. It's not just about starving. People would commit less crime if they had less need. People would be more productive and innovative if they had educations that could get them professional jobs. More people with such jobs would lead to a higher standard of living for more people. More people with more money means a lot more opportunity for entrepreneurs who otherwise would not have the money to make the most of their skills. Healthcare costs would go down if people didn't have to pay for preventative care. People would be healthier if they could regularly afford better and more nutritious food. Why, even religion would benefit, as the devout could devote themselves full-time to spiritual matters without having to worry about not feeding their kids this month.

A guaranteed standard of living for every person is really a complete no-brainer in a country as wealthy as ours. Even those who would pay more in taxes would benefit in a huge number of ways that you can't financially quantify, and you could tax a billionaire 99% and still leave them living in a life of obscene luxury. We're so worried about the economy, yet we're taking the stupid approach and making sure that as few people as possible can contribute meaningfully to it.
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#18
RE: The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
-or participate in it, or derive benefits from it.

That's why we have such crap mobility stats. We don't have an economy, more like a money funnel.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#19
RE: The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
(July 19, 2014 at 8:05 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote:
(July 19, 2014 at 7:11 pm)Heywood Wrote: Just for the record I don't think the amount of the universal basic income should be predicated on what people need, but rather on what the government can afford. People might still need to work or starve/freeze. You can't tax too much lest you disincentive production.

People who are dead from a lack of basic necessities typically don't have a lot of incentive to work. People who are suffering because they have to choose between necessities are naturally less productive.


My wife is from a 3rd world country. When she came to this country at 16 as a legal immigrant her needs were met by her parents. When she turned 18 she moved out and there were consecutive days when she had nothing to eat and no money to buy food. Today she looks back an realizes she didn't have to suffer because she knows she would have qualified for scholarships and government assistance.....but she didn't know that at the time. That's another problem with a hodgepodge of government programs....you have to know they exist and that you qualify for them.....and then you have to go out wade thru a bureaucracy to apply for each one of them. A universal basic income makes it so much easier as you just get it....no need to qualify....and if you know about paying taxes....you will know about the universal basic income.

There really is no good reason to oppose a universal basic income in lieu of a hodgepodge of government programs except for the ideal that you and/or the government know better how people should spend money then people themselves. This is a notion I whole-heartedly reject. I hope you do too. A universal basic income is inevitable. The only question is will it be the government dictating how you spend that money or you.
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#20
RE: The lady who drove a Mercedes to pick up food vouchers.
(July 19, 2014 at 6:38 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: I've had assistance (SNAP) myself, for a brief period. I didn't feel the slightest bit of shame because I've been a taxpaying worker since the age of 16. I am entitled to benefit from what I've been paying into for half my life, and all the more when you consider that most of that tax money has gone to corporate welfare, which is unjustifiable, and the military, which gets vastly more than it needs.

I absolutely do not agree that people should feel shame. The vast majority of people don't choose to be poor and starving. Those who would shame the poor needing help should be far more ashamed of themselves than those who are getting the help. It's a lot easier not to be an asshole than it is to change your economic status.

And, I do absolutely agree with the idea of a guaranteed minimum income, because who deserves to have basic necessities is not a question we have the luxury of asking when we clearly have enough for everybody.

I agree with you that assistance should be there for bad times and taking it when you are paying into the system is totally justified. Nobody should feel bad about it. The only thing I take issue with is the word starving. Poor and hungry maybe, but virtually nobody in the United States is really starving in the true sense of the word.
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