Cryptids

[rexbeccarox]

Oh, c'mon... really? You can't be that certain.

Bigfoot: I'll give it a 10
More advanced aliens in our galaxy: 5
Aliens that have visited Earth: 10
Nessy: Meh... with the thousands of sightings... I'll give it a 10
Chupacabra: no one even can agree on what is is, so 1
The Jersey Devil: as its description makes it sound sort of like a dragon, forked tail and all, I'd say 1
Mokele Mbebe: Sort of like Nessy. 10

Also, why is a thread about cryptology in the Science forum? It's most definitely not science.

Thanks for the response! I always find it interesting that so many atheists believe in the existence of alien life even though there’s no tangible evidence any such life exists.
I do not see why cryptozoology would not be a science; it fits the definition of a methodological study of the natural world. Nobody thinks that there are no undiscovered animals that exist today (or animals previously thought to have gone extinct who still exist). It certainly has a purpose and sometimes hits scientific gold (i.e. the coelacanth). The word science has a particular meaning, it’s not some magic trophy given to only those whom you agree with or respect. When thousands claim to have seen a large bipedal primate in the forests of North America I think it’s perfectly scientific to methodologically investigate its existence.

I hope you didn't take from my low numbers that I was implying that I think aliens exist...

And cryptozoology is not science; rather it's pseudoscience.

[Statler Waldorf]

---

I'm with vorlon on this - nil to everything except ETs that have NOT visited Earth.

Why am I so certain? Several reasons:

1. No hard evidence for any of them.

2. Most of the creatures (as commonly described) could not survive in the environs postulated for them.

3. If these things were as common as the cryptonuts typically claim, we be shooing Bigfeet away from our dustbins and tripping over chupacabras.

Sorry, but cryptozoology is just one of the many, many things dreamed up by sad, disaffected people who want the universe to be more marvelous than it already is.

Boru

---

Yes I largely agree, however with a few of these cryptids the explanation for their existence seems far more reasonable than the explanation for their nonexistence. That is why I am so torn on the existence of Bigfoot/Yeti. Sometimes I think it just seems more likely that they really do exist rather than it being the case that thousands of people spread out over two continents have all claimed to see the exact same non-existent creature for the last 150 years, and hundreds of people are running around in the woods and snow with large foot forms strapped to their feet. The other part of me knows that I have spent a great deal of time in the very forests supposedly inhabited by Bigfoot, and I have seen evidence supporting the existence of every other animal that lives in those woods but never a shred of evidence that suggests bigfoot lives in them.

Thoughts?

[vorlon13]

No hunter has ever shot a 'Bigfoot' thinking it was a deer. Locally, cows of all colors and sizes are mistaken by hunters to be deer or turkeys (?!?!?!) and shot, much to the annoyance of the owners.

And I reiterate my observation about nobody anywhere ever running over anything 'crypto' with a car. It really provides an ENORMOUS difficulty for anyone claiming such critters exist. Maybe you can't 'prove a negative', but the fact no one has ever pulled a chupacabra out of their radiator is just about as conclusive as anything.

[Jackalope]

No hunter has ever shot a 'Bigfoot' thinking it was a deer. Locally, cows of all colors and sizes are mistaken by hunters to be deer or turkeys (?!?!?!) and shot, much to the annoyance of the owners.

This same phenomenon casts doubt on all eyewitness accounts, IMHO. People often "see" what they wish to see.

Hard evidence, or GTFO.

[Tonus]

The Jersey Devil- 0%

I think we can put this one to rest:


For the rest, I tend to take a "believe it when I see it, or better evidence than blurry photos or video of someone in a gorilla suit" approach to such phenomena. I wonder what effect the advances in photographic retouching and video re-enactments will have on future generations? There are plenty of "found footage" films that look pretty convincing in spots, and photo retouching has (IMO) surpassed what people thought we'd be able to do. How will a public weaned on Photoshop and Paranormal Activity react to attempts at passing off evidence of mythical or supernatural entities?

[Anomalocaris]

I don't rule out 'weird' germs, fungi, etc.

Read a quick report there is an 'electrically' powered microbe just been discovered. Funny people think they need to make up oddities when there are plenty of real ones waiting to be discovered.

---

Agreed, except more advanced aliens in our galaxy - 90%

As to have aliens visited earth, as in ever, in only form, including dropping automated probes into atmosphere or coming into solar system with remote sensing probes, during any part of earth's 4.6 billion years, and not backwoods visitation or abduction after UFO scare of 1950s, I would say fairly high, 50%

I'm a big 'fan' of the Fermi Paradox. I find it extremely convincing. And the greater the number of 'advanced' lifeforms predicted in to exist in our galaxy, curiously, the stronger and more convincing the Fermi Paradox becomes.

Really. Think about it.

I consider Fermi paradox and interesting starting point of discussion, but by no means capable of being used to draw strong conclusions at all. Fermi paradox relies on three assumptions:

1. Intelligent civilizations are likely to endure for a length of time significant next to the overall age of the universe.

2. As intelligent civilizations endure, they are likely to create an broad and ever broader foot print of evidence and artifacts which we are able to readily detect and identify right now.

3. The frequency and distribution of enduring intelligent civilization in the region of galaxy around the earth is typical of that in the galaxy over all.

I personally think there is no way of estimating how long any technological civilization can endure. It may be a matter of a few hundred years, it may be a matter of billions of years. Or it may be that vast majority of technological civilization self destructs within a few hundred or few thousand years, but if a technological civilization survive more than a few thousand years, then it's has high likelihood of surviving for millions or billions of years.

I personally think if there are artifacts of alien civilization 10,000 years more advanced then us within detection range of our instruments, we have a high chance of not being able to recognize it. Much of the alien evidence we search for seem to be based on one of two assumptions - either aliens want to talk to us and would therefore give us signed appropriately dumbed down for our comprehension, or aliens are wasteful and have imperfect command of their technologies so we can spy them through various us intended leakages of their information, which we assume we would recognize when we see them. I fing both assumptions problematic.

We are at the very beginning of our technological civilization development. There is no meaningful length by which any alien civilization can be less advance than us, and still be considered a technological civilization, or a civilization at all. But the age of the universe gives perhaps an 6-8 billion year margin by which some civilization might have surpassed us. If there are 10,000 enduring civilizations in the Milky Way more advanced than we are, and the degree to which they surpass us is more or less random, then the chances are the civilization closest to use in technological development would be 600,000-800,000 years ahead of us.

If my suspicion that artifact of any alien 10,000 years ahead of us would already likely be unrecognizable to us, then it seems probably even with 10,000 alien civilizations staring us in the face, we would recognize none of them.

[vorlon13]

The 'crypto' advocating community also has another grave difficulty in their almost obsessive tolerance to being fooled by hoaxers.

When the compulsively gullible keep coming forward with ludicrous claims about 'new evidence', 'pending findings' and the rest of their folderol, it really gets old. When folks with a history of sharp scepticism step forward with claims (a rarity, btw) they go to the head of the class.

Astounding claims require astounding evidence.

[Dystopia]

I would be very interesting if aliens existed. If the claim extraterrestrial beings were to be proven true in the near future, my life goal would be to schedule a coffee with the aliens and chit chat about our civilizations, perhaps I could introduce them so a weird institution we humans created named religion.

As for aliens who have visited earth, I doubt it, it doesn't mean it's impossible, at least it is more likely than god existing.

[ignoramus]

I don't rule out 'weird' germs, fungi, etc.

Read a quick report there is an 'electrically' powered microbe just been discovered. Funny people think they need to make up oddities when there are plenty of real ones waiting to be discovered.

---

Agreed, except more advanced aliens in our galaxy - 90%

As to have aliens visited earth, as in ever, in only form, including dropping automated probes into atmosphere or coming into solar system with remote sensing probes, during any part of earth's 4.6 billion years, and not backwoods visitation or abduction after UFO scare of 1950s, I would say fairly high, 50%

I'm a big 'fan' of the Fermi Paradox. I find it extremely convincing. And the greater the number of 'advanced' lifeforms predicted to exist in our galaxy, curiously, the stronger and more convincing the Fermi Paradox becomes.

Really. Think about it.

+1

[Anomalocaris]

I would be very interesting if aliens existed. If the claim extraterrestrial beings were to be proven true in the near future, my life goal would be to schedule a coffee with the aliens and chit chat about our civilizations, perhaps I could introduce them so a weird institution we humans created named religion.

As for aliens who have visited earth, I doubt it, it doesn't mean it's impossible, at least it is more likely than god existing.

Aliens wouldn't talked any creature from a species whose gene pool is so debased that its society contains religion for its members to talk about.