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RE: Quantum Physics and Baha'u'llah
July 23, 2014 at 5:17 pm
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2014 at 5:28 pm by logicalreason.)
(July 23, 2014 at 5:04 pm)Blackout Wrote: By your logic, anyone who claims to be holy or divine is worthy of being followed by a group of believers.
If I proclaimed to be god's hand on earth, would people create a religion around me?
I would ask you who is this God you're the hand of.
(July 23, 2014 at 5:04 pm)Blackout Wrote: I'm asking what evidence is there that the baha'i god exists, and not merely belief or faith.
I don't believe in a Baha'i God.
God is a literary device, a sort of motif.
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RE: Quantum Physics and Baha'u'llah
July 23, 2014 at 7:24 pm
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2014 at 7:26 pm by logicalreason.)
(July 23, 2014 at 5:04 pm)Blackout Wrote: You seem to be dodging the question. I'm asking why should I adhere to the baha'i religion... It's a very simple and non complex question.
I can't say anything about or for you. I am just saying I observe Baha'u'llah through his writings and claims he made.
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RE: Quantum Physics and Baha'u'llah
July 23, 2014 at 7:49 pm
(July 23, 2014 at 7:24 pm)logicalreason Wrote: (July 23, 2014 at 5:04 pm)Blackout Wrote: You seem to be dodging the question. I'm asking why should I adhere to the baha'i religion... It's a very simple and non complex question.
I can't say anything about or for you. I am just saying I observe Baha'u'llah through his writings and claims he made.
Writings and claims, right. I could write books and make claims too, that doesn't make them facts. I want to know why that person you're talking about made genuine claims that represent facts. Why not Christianity or Islam? Why Baha'i?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: Quantum Physics and Baha'u'llah
July 23, 2014 at 8:05 pm
(July 23, 2014 at 7:49 pm)Blackout Wrote: (July 23, 2014 at 7:24 pm)logicalreason Wrote: I can't say anything about or for you. I am just saying I observe Baha'u'llah through his writings and claims he made.
Writings and claims, right. I could write books and make claims too, that doesn't make them facts. I want to know why that person you're talking about made genuine claims that represent facts. Why not Christianity or Islam? Why Baha'i?
First: I think you are right anyone can write books making any sort of claims. There are many claimants as well, not just your hypothetical proposition to advance your own claims. They claim to perform miracles. This is a big red flag, because it is not possible to violate natural laws. I don't think Baha'u'llah actually claims supernaturalist feats nor is he a supernaturalist.
Second: This is a complicated question and I don't think it can be addressed in a simple forum response. But in short: Baha'u'llah's claims surpasses the definitions set up by the Bible and Quran. I also found that Baha'u'llah is an atheist who used the word "God" as a literary device or motif.
Third: I am not a theistic Baha'i.
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RE: Quantum Physics and Baha'u'llah
July 23, 2014 at 8:40 pm
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2014 at 8:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Bet your atheism goes over like a fart in church with your fellow Baha'is.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Quantum Physics and Baha'u'llah
July 23, 2014 at 8:47 pm
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2014 at 8:49 pm by logicalreason.)
Not among fellow, deepened, educated Iranian Baha'is, its fine, we all discuss this. My problem is with the "converted" masses of Baha'is who can't figure out what I am saying  I was born an atheist (aka Bahai), and I die an atheist.
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RE: Quantum Physics and Baha'u'llah
July 23, 2014 at 8:50 pm
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2014 at 8:51 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I recall reading something to the effect of generational Baha'is having trouble relating to the converts (to the point of considering "the west" wasted effort). Can't seem to recall the articles source though, meh - I'll have to see if my google-fu can do it's magic.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Quantum Physics and Baha'u'llah
July 23, 2014 at 8:55 pm
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2014 at 8:58 pm by logicalreason.)
Most Iranians are uneducated too, no worries.
Theism is the evil of all societies.
I get emotional sometimes, I make great generalizations when I am emotional.
But fascism and communism were evil too.
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RE: Quantum Physics and Baha'u'llah
July 23, 2014 at 9:53 pm
Fascism and communism aren't the issue right now (in this thread). You claim to be a bahai but you're an atheist, isn't bahai a religion that worships a personal god? I don't understand this
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: Quantum Physics and Baha'u'llah
July 23, 2014 at 10:00 pm
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2014 at 10:26 pm by logicalreason.)
"Personal God" is a literary device, which means that it (the idea itself) is a literary or linguistic technique that produces a specific effect. It may also be seen as a motif, or theme in works of literature or religious texts: an important and sometimes recurring theme or idea.
"Personal God" isn't a real entity in or surrounding the world. It is just a product of human imagination or the mind. The closed door in my room, or the lamp sitting on my desk, or my pet fish George, has no concept of the idea "Personal God". Epicurus also makes an amazing observation of God's attributes as you quoted.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
[If God existed, He would not be able to because of "Free Will".]
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
[He is not able to violate free will because He is unwilling to take away free will.]
But this doesn't say anything about non-free will evil, such as earthquakes, tornados, diseases, child deaths, and other acts of nature and accidents.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
[From free will.]
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
[Agreed. Free will itself implies He is not God, we are Gods ourselves.]
But this only is about human free will. It doesn't say anything about natural disasters and accidents which have nothing to do with humans causing evil.
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