One thing I find encouraging on here!

[Diablo]

I do not mean to be rude, but I sometimes miss other's levity. When you said "I got this from a place that never saw light" is that a euphemism for "out of my ass"? Like when people say "where the sun don't shine"?

Just trying to make sure I didn't miss the joke. If there was none then I apologize.

It's a euphemism

---

Diablo, what about Libya?

What about Libya?

[DramaQueen]

Nothing

[Goosebump]

That's really tough. Living in secular Europe where gay marriage is common and people's human rights are respected, it's shameful that the US dosn't adopt the same standards.

I think it's more unfortunate than difficult. Yet how to improve it is well beyond my grasp of understanding. I think there is something in the bible about "love thy neighbor of the love of me" or some such wording with the same intent. However that leaves a lot of wiggle room.

I think social evolution is the only paradigm that will lead to universal equality and that is likely a very slow and arduous process. A lot of american'ness' includes exceptional-ism and "self made man" type of belief. Not "we're all in it together". On spaceship Earth the crew is at each other's throats!

[Statler Waldorf]

Is that there is much less discussion of same sex marriage than I would have thought coming from the religious on this forum.
Which indicates to me that it is no longer a big deal. People are marrying who they want and the sky is not falling in, the world is still turning about the sun.
Christians and others have grudgingly accepted it...?

I think that has more to do with the fact that rather than actually debate the issue people who support non-traditional marriage want to just call people of religious conviction names.

You seem to be acting as if there is a moral imperative to allow gay marriage, that’s very interesting to say the least.

---

That's really tough. Living in secular Europe where gay marriage is common and people's human rights are respected, it's shameful that the US dosn't adopt the same standards.

Where do those rights come from?

[bennyboy]

You seem to be acting as if there is a moral imperative to allow gay marriage, that’s very interesting to say the least.

What's this about "allowing?" In a free society, there's a moral imperative to support the freedoms of your fellow citizens. You don't ALLOW freedom-- you fight for it.

[Ravenshire]

Homophobics haven't lost the war. Look at Uganda

Oh, they've lost. Some just will not concede defeat.

[bennyboy]

Homophobics haven't lost the war. Look at Uganda

Oh, they've lost. Some just will not concede defeat.

I don't think homophobia will ever "lose," since there is some biological imperative involved. I think it's more like a cycle between conservatism and liberalism. The non-muslim world is shifting hard to the left right now, because that's the way the media is going.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

You seem to be acting as if there is a moral imperative to allow gay marriage, that’s very interesting to say the least.

What's this about "allowing?" In a free society, there's a moral imperative to support the freedoms of your fellow citizens. You don't ALLOW freedom-- you fight for it.

A to the men.

I get the impression that a lot of anti-homosexual rights supporters tend to perceive homosexuals as sub-human; as being gay somehow means your worth is less than a straight person, as though sexuality is the sole determinant as to how others perceive you.

A lot of them act as though the rapture is going to happen because (for example) gay marriage is being legalised throughout the western world. Why I've got no idea. Scaremongering I guess.

[robvalue]

I have heard the argument that same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed because the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman. There's two glaring problems with this:

1) The bible doesn't just say this. The bible says a man can have multiple wives. And I've never seen any christian saying this is OK. So it doesn't even make sense to try and argue from the bible, then ignore what it actually says.

2) Marriage no longer has to have anything to do with religion. I had a totally non-religious wedding, and religion has no bearing on our relationship. It just means we are married in the eyes of the law, and of course it means a lot to us personally. The very definition of marriage has changed. Why should this be different for homosexuals?

The only real reason to be against homosexuals, either in general or to stop them marrying, is just pure hatred towards them. People don't like difference from the norm. Some people hate them just because they do, and some back it up with religious stuff.

In my opinion, I think homophobia is as rife as it has ever been, it's just most people hide it better now. I hope I'm wrong about that, but it's not exactly easy to get accurate statistics! We have scientific evidence that it's genetic, but that doesn't seem to mean a lot to some people. And even if it was a choice, so what? I still see no reason to be angry about it.

I think it's something that is often learnt from the parents. I have always found it somewhat baffling from an evolutionary point of view, as a homosexual is not a rival for possible mates. Where does all this hate come from?

[Diablo]

I honestly think that there's less hohophobia than there used to be, at least in Europe and, probably, in the States, at least among younger people. One problem is that America is a lot more religious than Europe, so you have the issue of some of those religious groups continuing with the bible-based prejudice. When the issue is phrased as 'everyone should have the same rights' it becomes difficult to keep arguing for the persecution of gay people.