Platitudes

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I'd like to call attention to the fact that this thread has now been up for 11 or so hours, and this is the first time I've used the phrase 'duck-billed platitude'. I think this shows great restraint on my part, and I feel the right to brag a bit.

Thank you for your time.

Boru

[Drich]

I find myself astonishingly unable to care. Your insinuation - actually, it was a downright assertion - was that I unjustly accused you of wishing cancer on people, when all the time it was HIV/AIDS. You used my wording to allege a cavalier attitude to the facts. And guess what we find..?

That you have twisted content to fit a pharisaical interpretation of my written word, so you can feel justified in whatever judgement you wish to pass.

[Cyberman]

Hey, the threads are there for all to see, in your very own words. Ah, but I'm tickling your martyr chip, aren't I?

Oh, and incidentally: I try not to pass judgements. As a wise fellow once said, "Don't judge me before you learn the full story. And when you have learned the full story, who the fuck are you to judge me?"

[RobbyPants]

I totally get what you were trying to say. That is why I backed out of the direction you were going and re-established some common ground that all Christians would agree on.

Yeah, they all do that, then they start to say things that they don't agree on.

As soon as you try to water it down to "love God and love people", you end up with some Christians saying that we should let God deal with homosexuals on his own terms and others saying that you can't love God if you let gay people get married.

It sounds great when you first say it, but then it becomes meaningless and in-actionable as soon as you put it under any scrutiny.

First the defination of doctrine, and second where to find the doctrine of Christ.
Therefore If said doctrine can be found in the gospel then it is indeed a doctrine of Christ.

So, flip tables over if someone offends you? That's in the gospels. Seriously, you have to narrow it down if it's going to be of any use. Sure, you can argue context, and many people will, and that's why you get so many different sects withing the religion.

Now because we are all different with different concerns we will focus on different parts of Christ's doctrine.

This goes back to what Paul said in corthinians, in that we are all different members of the same body, as such we have a different appearance and different function, even so we are no less apart of the body of Christ.

In short you are looking for a jumpsuit theology. One all encompassing uniform that covers everything. When Christianity is more like individually made articles of clothing. Tailored to form fit indivisual body parts. Just because you examine a 'glove' from one Christian and a hat or a sock from another does not make those articals any less tailored for the body of Christ.

So, there is no one doctrine that people can use, then?

See, this is what I mean when I talk about it being a platitude: you start out making a statement that sounds actionable, then you water it down to the point where no one can agree what it even means, and then call that a feature, not a bug. It's a feature in that it makes you feel good to say it, but not in any way that could be useful to someone listening to it.

You want people to get AIDS?!? Why?

He wants God to cause a problem for you so you'll go to him to fix it. It's a more visceral reskinning of the whole original sin/salvation motif.

[Drich]

Hey, the threads are there for all to see, in your very own words. Ah, but I'm tickling your martyr chip, aren't I?

Oh, and incidentally: I try not to pass judgements. As a wise fellow once said, "Don't judge me before you learn the full story. And when you have learned the full story, who the fuck are you to judge me?"

Kinda ironic since you did not post the full context in which my posts were taken. And yet you've made your judgement against selective excerpts of what I have said, and what I was trying to do..

Too bad you didn't seem to get that your wise friend's words cut both ways.

---

Yeah, they all do that, then they start to say things that they don't agree on.

again we are all of the same body, but made up of different parts. We do not have all the same function, therefore we will focus on what we are made to deal with.

That is why I narrowed the discussion parameters to defining the word doctrine and the source material to find said doctrine. All members of the body of Christ will agree on. Once a doctrine deviates from either one of those two parameters it ceases being a doctrine of Christ.

As soon as you try to water it down to "love God and love people", you end up with some Christians saying that we should let God deal with homosexuals on his own terms and others saying that you can't love God if you let gay people get married.

and that is why your interpretation here is not a doctrine of Christ. The command is to love God with all of your being and love your neighbor as yourself.

To love everyone means what ever you want it to mean, but as Christ commands to love your neighbor as yourself is to hold your neighbor to the same standards and even restrictions as you place on yourself.

The command Christ gives is not one of allowing your love for your neighbor to exceed the love you have been given that has manifest in the love you have for yourself.

It sounds great when you first say it, but then it becomes meaningless and in-actionable as soon as you put it under any scrutiny.

maybe that is why you boiled Gods command down from what Christ actually said to 'love God/love self.'

So, flip tables over if someone offends you? That's in the gospels.

the context of the offense dictates one response. Christ was offended many times personally, he in most cases taught through example to turn the other cheek. And other times when defending his ministry/work he was out right combative and called out the Pharisees for being hypocritical. When God was offended he fashioned a whip of cords and turned over the money changers tables.

Your looking to paint with a broad brush and cover an instance that will always be true. When the opposite is true. Your looking to put Christianity or rather the doctrines of Christ into the same format as the rest of man's religions, and it will not work. As it does not work that way, because biblical Christianity is about freedom, not laws on top of laws.

Seriously, you have to narrow it down if it's going to be of any use. Sure, you can argue context, and many people will, and that's why you get so many different sects withing the religion.

see above. Biblical Christianity is about freedom.

So, there is no one doctrine that people can use, then?

Christ summed up the whole law in Love God with all of your being and your neighbor as yourself.

See, this is what I mean when I talk about it being a platitude: you start out making a statement that sounds actionable, then you water it down to the point where no one can agree what it even means, and then call that a feature, not a bug. It's a feature in that it makes you feel good to say it, but not in any way that could be useful to someone listening to it.

you assume too much

[Cyberman]

Kinda ironic since you did not post the full context in which my posts were taken. And yet you've made your judgement against selective excerpts of what I have said, and what I was trying to do..

No judgement, at least intentionally. Merely clarifying with the recorded facts. As for the full context, well I assume that most people have a scroll wheel on their mouse and the ability to read back through the threads. If there is any context missing which you feel would help your case, it may be helpful to present it rather than whine about what hasn't been done.
[/quote]

[RobbyPants]

and that is why your interpretation here is not a doctrine of Christ. The command is to love God with all of your being and love your neighbor as yourself.

To love everyone means what ever you want it to mean, but as Christ commands to love your neighbor as yourself is to hold your neighbor to the same standards and even restrictions as you place on yourself.

The command Christ gives is not one of allowing your love for your neighbor to exceed the love you have been given that has manifest in the love you have for yourself.

Okay, now how do you take that and figure out how to act in any given situation? Two different Christians will take every word you just typed and act differently on it. One will say that it's our duty to love the homosexuals and to allow them to make their own choices, encouraging them with our own good example. Another would say we have to love them and make laws outlawing their bad behavior to help them.

Neither one of those is inconsistent with what you said. It sounds all nice when you type it out in the vaguest way possible, but it's also completely in-actionable. It's a platitude.

[Drich]

Okay, now how do you take that and figure out how to act in any given situation? Two different Christians will take every word you just typed and act differently on it. One will say that it's our duty to love the homosexuals and to allow them to make their own choices, encouraging them with our own good example. Another would say we have to love them and make laws outlawing their bad behavior to help them.

that's the point!

Neither one of those is inconsistent with what you said. It sounds all nice when you type it out in the vaguest way possible, but it's also completely in-actionable. It's a platitude.

Uh, no.

What is the greatest command?

To love our lord God with all of our heart, mind, spirit and strength. (Not to follow a list a rules like the Jews had to)

In order to make this all encompassing love possible we must have the freedom to up hold what is important to our individual mind, heart, spirit, and strength combos demand.

Because we are all a little different with different strengths and weaknesses our all encompassing love will demand we up hold certain aspects differently than others.

In biblical Christianity the specific rule of law is less important than our giving of ourselves completely over to God is.

Again Christianity is not a religion of rules, it is freedom from rules directed towards individual[/quote] worship directed at God.

[RobbyPants]

What is the greatest command?

To love our lord God with all of our heart, mind, spirit and strength. (Not to follow a list a rules like the Jews had to)

In order to make this all encompassing love possible we must have the freedom to up hold what is important to our individual mind, heart, spirit, and strength combos demand.

So, if Christian A says "letting gays do their thing shows God's love" and Christian B says "not letting gays get married shows God's love", they're both correctly "loving God"?

Or is one of them wrong? If so, which one?

Because we are all a little different with different strengths and weaknesses our all encompassing love will demand we up hold certain aspects differently than others.

In biblical Christianity the specific rule of law is less important than our giving of ourselves completely over to God is.

Again Christianity is not a religion of rules, it is freedom from rules directed towards individual worship directed at God.

So, what you do isn't important so much as how well you can spin it? So long as you can justify why you thought it was honoring God, that's good enough?

I do have to say you've now taken the cake on useless and creepy Christian morality systems. I'm used to the whole "All you have to do to get into heaven is accept Jesus, and anything else goes, but not really because a true Christian wouldn't abuse the system like that". You've upped the ante to "Whatever, man, so long as you're a good spin doctor".

[The Grand Nudger]

I tested positive for HIV, and I had a tell tale sign (skin virus) of full blown aids, then durning my two week blood test period I was 'healed.'

Hold the phone.....are you claiming that you had HIV and now you don't? Or that you still have HIV, but that your "full blown aids" was miraculously cured? I remember a different story about how you came to belief in god.....back when you first came here....but I like this one a whole hell of alot better.