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RE: Is there freewill?
September 15, 2014 at 8:00 pm
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2014 at 8:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Doesn't really follow. If the future -can be known- then we have no such free will...-even if no one actually knows the future-.
Known, mind you, not approximated, not a good guess, not a range of probabilities....known.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is there freewill?
September 15, 2014 at 8:24 pm
Future can be known provided we have data on every single quantum particle and and ability to process that vast information, which in practice is impossible, since we are part of this system and in order to properly gather and process this information without affecting or modifying it in the process, we would have to be outside of this system.
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RE: Is there freewill?
September 15, 2014 at 9:26 pm
(September 15, 2014 at 1:13 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: What what will would happen to the christian religion of there is not? As it is right now the only reason to think there could be freewill is because of the heinzberg uncertainty principle which states that you cannot know where the electron is. This principle was postulated in the 1920s, and has yet to be proven wrong. How ever there is good reason to think it may be wrong, and simply a limitation of our knowledge and technology. If that is the case that mean that according to classical everything has been set in motion since the big bang. In other words no freewill.
Indeed, the heinzberg blue ice principle of 2013 and the bible both say we are slaves to sin, therefore no 'free will.'
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RE: Is there freewill?
September 15, 2014 at 9:28 pm
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2014 at 9:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Then we have no responsibility for that sin. Riiiiight?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is there freewill?
September 15, 2014 at 9:30 pm
(September 15, 2014 at 3:59 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: No, only free agency. What Christians mean by free will is actually free agency. It's laziness with words.
No shit, right? Unless you're prepared to talk about Curt Flood, there's no sense in talking about free agency.
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RE: Is there freewill?
September 15, 2014 at 10:33 pm
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2014 at 10:34 pm by Lemonvariable72.)
(September 15, 2014 at 9:26 pm)Drich Wrote: (September 15, 2014 at 1:13 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: What what will would happen to the christian religion of there is not? As it is right now the only reason to think there could be freewill is because of the heinzberg uncertainty principle which states that you cannot know where the electron is. This principle was postulated in the 1920s, and has yet to be proven wrong. How ever there is good reason to think it may be wrong, and simply a limitation of our knowledge and technology. If that is the case that mean that according to classical everything has been set in motion since the big bang. In other words no freewill.
Indeed, the heinzberg blue ice principle of 2013 and the bible both say we are slaves to sin, therefore no 'free will.' That would mean that we are not truly responsible for our, but rather the creator that set the universe in motion is as he would be the only being with free will or free agency as our hairy little hiker likes to call it.
(September 15, 2014 at 3:59 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: No, only free agency. What Christians mean by free will is actually free agency. It's laziness with words.
Are hobbits good at dodging because they're small or is that just you?
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Is there freewill?
September 15, 2014 at 11:17 pm
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2014 at 11:18 pm by Drich.)
(September 15, 2014 at 9:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Then we have no responsibility for that sin. Riiiiight? If you wish to remain separated form God no. Your sin will eternally separate you from God.
There is only obligation if you want to be with God for eternity.
(September 15, 2014 at 10:33 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: [quote='Drich' pid='752139' dateline='1410830787']
Indeed, the heinzberg blue ice principle of 2013 and the bible both say we are slaves to sin, therefore no 'free will.' That would mean that we are not truly responsible for our, but rather the creator that set the universe in motion is as he would be the only being with free will or free agency as our hairy little hiker likes to call it.
...which is why we have been offered atonement, with the only condition being we accept it.
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RE: Is there freewill?
September 16, 2014 at 12:12 am
(September 15, 2014 at 11:17 pm)Drich Wrote: (September 15, 2014 at 9:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Then we have no responsibility for that sin. Riiiiight? If you wish to remain separated form God no. Your sin will eternally separate you from God.
There is only obligation if you want to be with God for eternity.
(September 15, 2014 at 10:33 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: [quote='Drich' pid='752139' dateline='1410830787']
Indeed, the heinzberg blue ice principle of 2013 and the bible both say we are slaves to sin, therefore no 'free will.' That would mean that we are not truly responsible for our, but rather the creator that set the universe in motion is as he would be the only being with free will or free agency as our hairy little hiker likes to call it.
...which is why we have been offered atonement, with the only condition being we accept it. How does offering atonement absolve of his responsibility of being the ultimate creator of sin as well as the only agent involved that possesses free will? For indeed of he is a free agent and all powerful while we are acting in accordance to how things have been set motion since the beginning of time, that makes gods offering of atonement a cruel and shallow gesture because he has know since he created which of us would accept and which would not. So he made us disbelieving, knowing that we be disbelievers, and in greater context ultimately unable to change weather end up as believers or nonbelievers. Yet he punishes us while absolving himself of all blame. Fuck sakes even I could be a better god then that.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Is there freewill?
September 16, 2014 at 12:18 am
(This post was last modified: September 16, 2014 at 12:22 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 15, 2014 at 11:17 pm)Drich Wrote: If you wish to remain separated form God no. Your sin will eternally separate you from God. Promises promises....lol. You're omitting something here though, I fear........
Quote:There is only obligation if you want to be with God for eternity.
Good to know that I'm in the clear for whatever fucking atrocity I may lose my mind and decide to commit - according to your god. Ever occur to you that your description of god makes him out to be a moral midget with less sense than you or I? You and I don't handle moral accountability between each other (or our fellow human beings) this way, do we? Why not, do you suppose....and do you think that we should?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is there freewill?
September 16, 2014 at 12:34 am
Is there freewill? ...try to not eat, sleep, go without sex, then you will have your answer.
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