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Is there freewill?
#31
RE: Is there freewill?
(September 15, 2014 at 1:13 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: What what will would happen to the christian religion of there is not?

Calvinism. There's a whole Protestant sub-school of thought that we don't have free will. From what I understand, the stance is taken so as to not limit the omnipotence of God.
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#32
RE: Is there freewill?
(September 16, 2014 at 7:53 am)Drich Wrote:
(September 16, 2014 at 12:12 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: How does offering atonement absolve of his responsibility of being the ultimate creator of sin as well as the only agent involved that possesses free will? For indeed of he is a free agent and all powerful while we are acting in accordance to how things have been set motion since the beginning of time, that makes gods offering of atonement a cruel and shallow gesture because he has know since he created which of us would accept and which would not. So he made us disbelieving, knowing that we be disbelievers, and in greater context ultimately unable to change weather end up as believers or nonbelievers. Yet he punishes us while absolving himself of all blame. Fuck sakes even I could be a better god then that.
Man was created free with a will of his own as represented by the choice given in the garden. This freedom was traded for slavery to sin in exchange for knoweledge of it.

In turn as a means to save man from our elected slavery God offers a way to break the chains.

(September 16, 2014 at 12:18 am)Rhythm Wrote: Promises promises....lol. You're omitting something here though, I fear........

Good to know that I'm in the clear for whatever fucking atrocity I may lose my mind and decide to commit - according to your god. Ever occur to you that your description of god makes him out to be a moral midget with less sense than you or I? You and I don't handle moral accountability between each other (or our fellow human beings) this way, do we? Why not, do you suppose....and do you think that we should?

It's all a matter of perspective. You view morality as the cornerstone of right and wrong. The problem with that philosophy is that your understanding of morality changes to fit the current generation's thoughts of right and wrong. Which means your morality ceases to be a corner stone for anything, and becomes a thermometer of pop culture. To judge anything or anyone with your trivial standard/ pop culture is only a testament to one's own self righteousness.

That would be like someone from the 60's looking from someone today and saying they dress funny.. Again by who's standards? The pop culture standard of the 60's? What if we are no longer bound by the pop standard of that time? Then of course that judgement is deemed null and void.

So to is any judgement of morality against God based on our current pop culture beliefs of right and wrong.
[/quote]
Have yoiu read what I have been writing? We never had free agency to begin with, if the future is knowable then it stands to reason that it was always knowable, for it is was unknowable that would mean that it have to have a random element. As you Christian love to point out, randomness does not lead to order, therefore a universe with a unknowable future would forever have a unknowable future
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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#33
RE: Is there freewill?
(September 16, 2014 at 7:53 am)Drich Wrote: It's all a matter of perspective. You view morality as the cornerstone of right and wrong. The problem with that philosophy is that your understanding of morality changes to fit the current generation's thoughts of right and wrong. Which means your morality ceases to be a corner stone for anything, and becomes a thermometer of pop culture. To judge anything or anyone with your trivial standard/ pop culture is only a testament to one's own self righteousness.

That would be like someone from the 60's looking from someone today and saying they dress funny.. Again by who's standards? The pop culture standard of the 60's? What if we are no longer bound by the pop standard of that time? Then of course that judgement is deemed null and void.

So to is any judgement of morality against God based on our current pop culture beliefs of right and wrong.
What a hilariously long winded way of entirely avoiding my questions. You don't even know what my understanding of morality -is- numbskull (and I doubt I'd waste my time if you asked). So whether it's the current generations, whether it's a cornerstone of anything, or a "thermometer of pop culture" is entirely beyond you to comment upon. Such is the nature of your faith in apologetics though, isn't it? Constantly pitching straw. When asked a question, you respond not to the question, but with the contents of an index card on an unrelated subject. Your sage wisdom on morality derives from whether or not I dress funny, and what that might mean, and to whom, and how it might be invalidated......and -that- is some funny shit.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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