Evolution V Creation

[rjh4 is back]

In answer to your question, though, the whole idea of man being an animal is based on evolutionary (common descent) thinking which I reject. Since I hold to a Christian/Biblical worldview and the Bible indicates that mankind was created to be greater than the animals, then I hold that we are. It is as simple as that.

What is the bibles definition of greater then?

Good question. I guess we all come to the table with our own view of what "greater than" means when it comes to comparing animals with mankind.

Relative to your question, I did not say that the Bible explicitly says that man is greater than the animals. I said the Bible indicates that this is the case. In Gen. 1:28 God give man "dominion over" the animals. When man sinned, God killed an animal to clothe man (Gen 3:21). God gave animals to man as food (Gen 9:3-4). The entire Bible is about God's plan for mankind, not animals. All of this indicates to me that we have authority and control over the animals to a degree and are worth more to God than animals and, therefore, we a "greater than" the animals in authority and worth.

[chatpilot]

rjh4 you seem to have brought this onslaught on yourself. I have not answered your two questions above because they are irrelevant and stupid. But if you must have a reply I will give you one.

1.Do you think that the killing of ants and slugs, and the like, are equivalent to the killing of humans such that you think, for example, that the Orkin man is a mass murderer?

A: No, the Orkin man is not a mass murderer, but if you define to kill or killing as" to cause the death of an organism, or the act of doing so." (definition derived from wikipedia) then it's the same thing.

2.Do you think that what Hitler and the Nazis did was acceptable/no problem as what they did is no different than what the Orkin man does?

A: What Hitler did was appalling to the utmost and in no way acceptable. But comparing that to the Orkin man shows a lack of careful consideration on your part. Most carnivorous species survive by banding together and hunting and killing prey of a weaker species they do not go around killing each other, this excludes fights for territory or mates. They kill a lower/weaker life form on the evolutionary scale. The Orkin man kills bugs ( a lower life form) and not people so to call him a mass murderer based on your ridiculous comparison is insanity.

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In answer to your question, though, the whole idea of man being an animal is based on evolutionary (common descent) thinking which I reject. Since I hold to a Christian/Biblical worldview and the Bible indicates that mankind was created to be greater than the animals, then I hold that we are. It is as simple as that.

What is the bibles definition of greater then?

Good question. I guess we all come to the table with our own view of what "greater than" means when it comes to comparing animals with mankind.

Relative to your question, I did not say that the Bible explicitly says that man is greater than the animals. I said the Bible indicates that this is the case. In Gen. 1:28 God give man "dominion over" the animals. When man sinned, God killed an animal to clothe man (Gen 3:21). God gave animals to man as food (Gen 9:3-4). The entire Bible is about God's plan for mankind, not animals. All of this indicates to me that we have authority and control over the animals to a degree and are worth more to God than animals and, therefore, we a "greater than" the animals in authority and worth.

I would love to see you in a cage with a hungry and angry lion with nothing but your bare hands and then you could come back and talk to me about authority and dominion, that is if you survive. Daniel and the lions den tale does not count since it's fiction and it's from the bible which has as much merit as a mass murderer caught in the act swearing he did not do it.

[Zhalentine]

I would love to see you in a cage with a hungry and angry lion with nothing but your bare hands and then you could come back and talk to me about authority and dominion, that is if you survive. Daniel and the lions den tale does not count since it's fiction and it's from the bible which has as much merit as a mass murderer caught in the act swearing he did not do it.

I agree with some of your points Chatpilot but I absolutely hate it when people try to compare a wild animal fighting with man without his tools. If you take away the lion's "tools," i.e his teeth and claws, it would be a much more fair fight. A lion was born with its weapons on its body, man was born with a mind to create weapons to use for defense and offense. Man has learned to build tools and use them effectively and to take them away when in a fight with a cat isn't a fair comparison. If man really was as defenseless as your statement suggests, then we would not have survived this long out in the wilderness. Even before we had the technology of metal knives, guns, and explosives, we had the ingenuity to make a trap from vines and sticks along with spears from sticks sharpened by breaking them or sharpening them with a rock.

[chatpilot]

Great point Zhalentine, but the purpose of my illustration is to demonstrate how on a realistic and natural scale man would be no match for a wild animal. We have to fashion tools and defeat brawn with brains that is a given, but in a cage none of that is relevant.

[Zhalentine]

If you put a below average intelligent five year old in a cage with Stephen Hawking the kid will surely win, but that doesn't give the kid authority over Hawking or the right to talk about dominion and authority over Hawking.

[Meatball]

I'm with Zhalentine on this one. Man's technology is natural in the sense that it has been developed by man, in an ever growing tree of technology, from nature. Man was not gifted the spear or the internal combustion engine from a higher power. These are tools created by man's natural advantage, afforded to him by nature.

Nature isn't just a lion hunting gazelles or a shark in the ocean. A uranium enrichment facility is nature in the same way that a lion's pack hunting tactics are nature. What if the lion in our cagefight is stripped of it's evolved killing instincts agility?

To make an argument out of that point is to discard any realistic point of reference and can't be taken seriously.

[leo-rcc]

I will say this though. Put a man in a forest or other wilderness, and that man will soon lose any notion of "dominion" over the rest of nature. You either respect the flora and fauna or you are dead. You either become part of nature or you die.

[Zen Badger]

In answer to your question, though, the whole idea of man being an animal is based on evolutionary (common descent) thinking which I reject. Since I hold to a Christian/Biblical worldview and the Bible indicates that mankind was created to be greater than the animals, then I hold that we are. It is as simple as that.

Relative to your question, I did not say that the Bible explicitly says that man is greater than the animals. I said the Bible indicates that this is the case. In Gen. 1:28 God give man "dominion over" the animals. When man sinned, God killed an animal to clothe man (Gen 3:21). God gave animals to man as food (Gen 9:3-4). The entire Bible is about God's plan for mankind, not animals. All of this indicates to me that we have authority and control over the animals to a degree and are worth more to God than animals and, therefore, we a "greater than" the animals in authority and worth.
[/quote]

So where is the evidence that supports the Bible?

And to clarify an apparent misconception on this thread.

There is no such thing as "higher" and "lower" lifeforms,

There are only lifeforms that are adapted to their niches in nature.

[KichigaiNeko]

I would disagree that "you would have to defang and claw" the lion. Humans have fangs and claws.
(I'll agree that they are next to useless by the lions superior weaponry)

Esentially, it is a arms race amongst predator and prey and will agree with ZB that there really are no "higher" or "lower" life forms on this planet...just life forms in general.

I just wonder if this childish maniacle preoccupation of "Dominion" is a vital evolutionary flaw that has made it's way into the human meme. Because at this point in history we are "dominioning" ourselves out of a planet to live on.

[chatpilot]

Meatball what differentiates a man from a wild and untamed animal is the more advanced development of our brains and our ability to think. We have survived because we have been able to make use of what is around us in our natural habitat. We made weapons out of rocks and wood etc and have been able to adapt to an otherwise hostile environment that no animal could ever achieve with the same efficacy as a human.