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An argument against God
#21
RE: An argument against God
(September 29, 2014 at 3:05 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:
(September 29, 2014 at 2:58 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You are right. It needs some additional argument to why it would be a favor to humanity if all knew he existed beyond doubt. I will go into that next week probably as I'm returning to the hospital for now.

I hope that's because you work there and not that you are suffering from an illness.

It's because I'm suffering from an illness. I'm attending university though at the same time so it's not all that bad. Will be out soon.
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#22
RE: An argument against God
What're you studying bud?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#23
RE: An argument against God
(September 29, 2014 at 3:09 pm)Rhythm Wrote: What're you studying bud?

Computer science. Software engineering.
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#24
RE: An argument against God
Then it's just a matter of time before I'll have help railing against those who fail to understand the importance of n/s conditions in logical statements. Wink How much time you got to go man?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#25
RE: An argument against God
(September 29, 2014 at 3:19 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Then it's just a matter of time before I'll have help railing against those who fail to understand the importance of n/s conditions in logical statements. Wink How much time you got to go man?

2 more years. Or 4 years if I do a master's.
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#26
RE: An argument against God
Go for the masters, the 4 year will get you a job as a tech support guy at a bank, that's about it. Does the program you're in have a Nand2tetris module?

(if not, I highly recommend you check it out http://www.nand2tetris.org/ , a programmer that understands how his programs are implemented is worth ten of his "purer" peers)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#27
RE: An argument against God
(September 29, 2014 at 1:49 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Experience on AF has taught me that Premise 2 is false. There seems to be nothing at all that could persuade an ideological atheist.

Well, there's at least a kernel of truth to that, in the following sense: If some being manifested itself doing things which - to us - seemed magical and supernatural, the rational first hypotheses to me would be to suspect either that
  • I had gone insane
  • Some kind of advanced intelligence is playing tricks on us
As much as the believer is conditioned to do so, it is not a justified default position to jump to the supernatural creator of the universe as a first explanation, it really isn't. It is more parsimonious to entertain the hypothesis that it's a non-supernatural and non-omnipotent creator or controller of our reality, e.g. via a simulation. That's not a point to be held against atheists, it is rather a lapse of judgement on the believers' part that they would interpret such an encounter in a God context by default.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#28
RE: An argument against God
(September 29, 2014 at 3:24 pm)Alex K Wrote:
(September 29, 2014 at 1:49 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Experience on AF has taught me that Premise 2 is false. There seems to be nothing at all that could persuade an ideological atheist.

Well, there's at least a kernel of truth to that, in the following sense: If some being manifested itself doing things which - to us - seemed magical and supernatural, the rational first hypotheses to me would be to suspect either that
  • I had gone insane
  • Some kind of advanced intelligence is playing tricks on us
Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. People want a miracle or ask for a sign and then if by chance it happens they find a way to explain it away. That is the problem with relying on miracles.

Fortunately, there are two other routes by which one can come to knowledge of God: reasoning from common experience (think Aquinas) and personal revelation (gnosis).
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#29
RE: An argument against God
If there are many ways to "explain it away" that's not exactly the fault of the person doing so. Tell your god to arrange for a more specific and convincing miracle, perhaps...if it isn't too much to ask...something that's actually miraculous. He can manage that...I assume?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#30
RE: An argument against God
(September 29, 2014 at 3:42 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:
(September 29, 2014 at 3:24 pm)Alex K Wrote: Well, there's at least a kernel of truth to that, in the following sense: If some being manifested itself doing things which - to us - seemed magical and supernatural, the rational first hypotheses to me would be to suspect either that
  • I had gone insane
  • Some kind of advanced intelligence is playing tricks on us
Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. People want a miracle or ask for a sign and then if by chance it happens they find a way to explain it away. That is the problem with relying on miracles.

Fortunately, there are two other routes by which one can come to knowledge of God: reasoning from common experience (think Aquinas) and personal revelation (gnosis).

How does this gnosis business even in principle provide any leverage against my reservations from above? Even if it were personally revealed to you, the rational position would still be to question your judgement and the reliability of this revelation, given the enormity of its nature. Concerning the reasoning from common experience, that may work to obtain knowledge about God under the assumption that it exists ('es a darn bastard), but nothing in the way of reliable and convincing evidence for existence in the first place. Unless I'm missing something major.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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