Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 12:22 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
#1
Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
One of the things Muslims believe is that Quran came to correct the Bible were it was wrong. In the Bible it was taught that God once commanded to kill for

1) Adultery (stoning)
2) Apostasy
3) Men having sex with each other

Now the Quran states Bani-Israel were in fact only allowed to kill for two reasons:


مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ۚ وَلَقَدْ جَاءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ {32}
[Shakir 5:32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

1) would be for murder (the person killed another person)
2) the other would be causing mischief in land like war

Now

Adultery would be neither of these
Homosexuals having sex would be neither of these
And an apostate leaving his religion would neither of these

Yet Muslims believe these were laws of Musa that were also laws of Mohammad.
Reply
#2
RE: Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
What point are you trying to make?
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Reply
#3
RE: Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
Its sound like their religion as other religions need to grow up, the ignorant and superstitious past should remain where it is, in the past.
Reply
#4
RE: Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
(October 25, 2014 at 7:50 pm)Chas Wrote: What point are you trying to make?

If hadiths were referred back to Quran and see if it contradicts it, there wouldn't be these unethical killings in the name of the religion.
Reply
#5
RE: Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
(October 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(October 25, 2014 at 7:50 pm)Chas Wrote: What point are you trying to make?

If hadiths were referred back to Quran and see if it contradicts it, there wouldn't be these unethical killings in the name of the religion.

But that will never happen.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Reply
#6
RE: Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
(October 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(October 25, 2014 at 7:50 pm)Chas Wrote: What point are you trying to make?

If hadiths were referred back to Quran and see if it contradicts it, there wouldn't be these unethical killings in the name of the religion.

If Star wars didn't refer to the dark side there would be no Darth Vader.

Nope, all holy books are weapons. The words are there for any sect of any religion to use it as a weapon to justify their own tribalism. That is because ALL religions are merely a reflection of our evolutionary grouping.

They are no more than books of myth written in antiquity having nothing to do with modern pluralism or modern knowledge of science or human psychology.
Reply
#7
RE: Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
(October 25, 2014 at 7:38 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: One of the things Muslims believe is that Quran came to correct the Bible were it was wrong. In the Bible it was taught that God once commanded to kill for

1) Adultery (stoning)
2) Apostasy
3) Men having sex with each other

Now the Quran states Bani-Israel were in fact only allowed to kill for two reasons:


مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ۚ وَلَقَدْ جَاءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ {32}
[Shakir 5:32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

1) would be for murder (the person killed another person)
2) the other would be causing mischief in land like war

Now

Adultery would be neither of these
Homosexuals having sex would be neither of these
And an apostate leaving his religion would neither of these

Yet Muslims believe these were laws of Musa that were also laws of Mohammad.

I'm sure I've heard of other circumstances. There's a part in the quran where a woman can be imprisoned at home until she starves to death, as a punishment for some sort of sexual crime.

I think the reason why Muslims stone people to death even though the quran doesn't mention it is because of the hadiths, which talk of how Muhammad wanted adulterers and homosexuals to be treated.

If you view the quran as a technical document of strict instructions there's actually nothing in the quran forbidding gay marriage either, it does give explicit codes of law about who a man is not allowed to marry, and other men is not mentioned in the law.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





Reply
#8
RE: Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
(October 25, 2014 at 7:38 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: 2) the other would be causing mischief in land like war

The correct verse states for spreading corruption in the land. Who says " like war" ? MysticKnight. Nowhere found in the Qur'an. In fact being gay is the definition of spreading corruption in the land, among others.

God HATES GAYS. Do you get it kid? God, HATES, GAY.
[Image: Untitled_1.jpg]
Reply
#9
RE: Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
(October 25, 2014 at 7:38 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: 2) the other would be causing mischief in land like war
This is why law is written in defined and specific language.
'Mischief in the land,' like 'high crimes and misdemeanors' is so vague and open ended that it means whatever the enforcing body wants it to mean in an instance where it is invoked. In the case of the Koran, that would be the ecclesiastical authorities. No real help for anybody there.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? Huh
Reply
#10
RE: Killing of homosexuals/apostates/adulterous in Quran/Bible
Quote:In the Bible it was taught that God once commanded to kill for

1) Adultery (stoning)
2) Apostasy
3) Men having sex with each other

I don't know where you got that from. The list is much longer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cap...te_note-43

Quote:According to the Torah or Law of Moses, these are the offenses which may merit the death penalty in a Jewish Beth din court of 23 judges.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Does the Quran support Theocracy? Leonardo17 16 629 Yesterday at 11:08 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  New Controversies around the Desecration of the Quran Leonardo17 100 8177 August 20, 2023 at 12:10 pm
Last Post: arewethereyet
  [Serious] Killing Allah by one topic Eclectic 16 1718 December 11, 2022 at 2:06 pm
Last Post: Eclectic
  Quran and Hadiths annatar 34 20451 October 11, 2022 at 5:14 pm
Last Post: arewethereyet
  "Nas" is probably my favorite arabic word in the Quran Woah0 22 1213 August 22, 2022 at 3:19 pm
Last Post: Aegon
  [Quranic reflection]: The Big Bang theory in the Quran. WinterHold 62 4195 June 14, 2022 at 1:21 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  How I'd Reveal the Quran To Humanity ReptilianPeon 23 2825 May 11, 2022 at 9:22 pm
Last Post: Cavalry
  2-big bang theory in the Quran mo3taz3nbar 108 48613 April 3, 2022 at 12:09 pm
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  [Quranic Reflection]: Quran vs Hadith- why the Hadith is false WinterHold 176 11491 January 15, 2022 at 2:39 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  [Quranic Reflection]: On reading the Quran.. WinterHold 1 851 July 24, 2021 at 5:23 pm
Last Post: onlinebiker



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)