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Atheism is unreasonable
#21
RE: Atheism is unreasonable
Did Brian not create this thread for the express purpose of ignorant theistic threads like the original poster's?
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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#22
RE: Atheism is unreasonable
Quote:But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.


Thanks for providing a graphic demonstration of how much of a fucking idiot you need to be to be a follower of fucking jesus.

Go blow jesus out your ass, troll.
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#23
RE: Atheism is unreasonable
(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: I can't speak for every religion, but I am a Christian theist. Now what does that imply? Well, that would mean that I believe Jesus Christ TEMPORARILY died on the cross for the sins of mankind, and that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.


There, fixed that for you.
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#24
RE: Atheism is unreasonable
(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Lets take away all of the fluff and feathers for a minute. Let's take away all of the technical babble, all of the rhetoric for just a second.

I'd love it if you christians dropped all the rhetoric, but unfortunately I've read the rest of the thread and I can see that what you really want is for everyone else to stop having their own positions so you can dictate them to us, for us. Dodgy

Quote:I can't speak for every religion, but I am a Christian theist. Now what does that imply? Well, that would mean that I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of mankind, and that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

And you believe all of that with no evidence whatsoever. Must be fun, just getting to groove with the fantasy like that.

Quote:That is basically my belief in a nut shell. Now, if you are an atheist, you may find my beliefs laughable, sickening, stupid, etc....which is fine, Christianity isn't for everyone because after all, Jesus said "But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it." (Matt 7:14).

How do you know Jesus said that? Thinking

Quote:But as an atheist, here is what you have to believe...you have to believe that billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

Oh nooooooooooooo... Confusedhock:

Well, as a christian, you have to believe that a cosmic armadillo pooped the universe into existence, and all the galaxies are little chunks of undigested corn, upon which we all live.

See how that is? See how utterly rude, inane and aggressive it is to presume to dictate what other people think to them? Are we going to get anywhere, if we just imperiously command other people to think in a way that's most convenient for our strawman arguments? Quit with the crap and just ask us what we believe. We'll literally just tell you, and then you can proceed from there rather than the dishonest place you're trying to come from.

Now, so far you haven't come across a single atheist that actually believes what you said, so if you persist with that idea, you will be lying. For starters, absolutely nobody- besides, oh, say, christians - believe that the universe was created instantaneously and over a short period of time in its current state. The current scientific model grants us several billion years for the universe to develop, for stars and planets and, yes, life to form, and this model has a vast array of evidence to demonstrate this. Even the formation of life from non-life has support, in the form of the Miller-Yurey experiments and others; it's not perfectly comprehensive, but it does demonstrate that in conditions other than current earth ones the components that make life do form naturally over time.

Rather than your strawman, this is a more typical atheist belief; the kind that is supported by hard scientific data. Please, try responding to this rather than your boring, childish argument.

Quote:Just think about that for a second. This non-living material suddenly CAME TO LIFE. For the life of me, I just can't get myself to believe that, even if I tried. I just don't understand how naturalism/atheism is a more reasonable position than theism.

Well, it's because that's not the atheist position. Oh, and atheism isn't naturalism either, so yay for another misconception there. Pity you didn't do the honest thing and just ask us. You know, there are plenty of atheists who believe in all sorts of supernatural things. Just not gods.

Oh, and incidentally? Your apparent "rebuttal" to what you just said is an argument from personal incredulity so... congratulations, you couldn't even respond to your own strawman without including a logical fallacy.

Quote:You have to believe that a process that can't think or see, created consciousness. So consciousness came from a process that can't think??

Conciousness arose slowly, across many successive generations, from simpler combinations of sensory apparatuses and cognitive faculties. The ability to react to more complex stimuli is an evolutionary advantage, allowing the organs that encourage that faculty to develop and grow as new species arose.

Quote:I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

And we end with, what? A creationist quote? Quite the intellectual company you keep. Rolleyes
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

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#25
RE: Atheism is unreasonable
(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Glad it's fine, because I can't help it. It is a ridiculous belief in many ways.

Many? Give me one.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I just love it when people tell me what I have to believe.

If the shoe fits.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Jenny A Wrote: First of all, not believing that a god who always existed brought life into being by magic is not the same as believing that anyone knows how life came about.

What are you talking about, Jenny? If the God hypothesis is out of the equation, then it is quite obvious that the only game left in town is abiogenesis.

It isn't as if there are a million different possibilities and naturalism and supernaturalism is just two of the million possibilities. No. Those are the only two games in town.

There is an active poll question on here right now that asks the question "Do you believe in God", and 87% of you said no. It seems pretty clear as to what the majority position is on here.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Jenny A Wrote: And life coming out of dead matter is no more unbelievable, in fact less so than either and god said it and puff it happened, or god made us out of clay (dead matter).

I am speaking of which is more plausible. I can conceive an omnipotent being being able to create life out of nonliving material. I cannot conceive of dead matter floating in space for past eternity and suddenly coming to life. If this did in fact happen, you should be able to demonstrate this in a lab, but you can't, which gives me the implication that nature, as mindless and blind as it is, was able to do something billions of years ago that intelligent human beings isn't able to do, and that is create life from non-life, and consciousness from unconsciousness.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Secondly, I know of no scientific hypotheses for the origins of life that involves matter drifting around in space suddenly springing to life

So Jenny, before life and earth originated, are you saying that preexisting matter wasn't floating around in space?? Wow. Ok, so what was going on then?

(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Jenny A Wrote: , let alone immediately thinking, talking, and having sex.

Keyword: Immediately. Notice the emphasis placed on that word, because Jenny would have people believe that it happened over the course of millions of years, right? With so much time, anything could have happened, right?

(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Jenny A Wrote: There's a summary here of the current theories about how very simple life may have begun. Wikipedia: Abiogenesis There's a better and broader discussion here: Talk Origins: Abiogenesis

You can theorize all you like...until you can demonstrate it...until it is demonstrated by tests/repeated experiment, then it is just a theory.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Only religions posit instant complex life complete with language and sex. The explanations vary from god said, fashioning out of clay or water, being shit out by god, or carved out of wood. Think about it. It's all magic.

Magic? Consciousness from unconsciousness is worse than magic, because on your view, there isn't even a magician (God), things are just happening for no scientific reasoning whatsoever. "Voodoo science" is what it is.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Jenny A Wrote: There always was a being capable of making things spring into existence merely by saying "let there be. . ." Now that's crazy. Think about it.

But it is conceivable, though. Life from nonlife isn't naturally conceivable. I can conceive of it happening, just not naturally. Life from nonlife can not be described by natural law, nor can consciousness from unconsciousness.

(November 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Jenny A Wrote: But you believe that the is an uncreated sentient being that can create life by just saying let there be life? Now that's faith.

A being that exists necessarily and therefore was not a produce of something that preceded it, yes.
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#26
RE: Atheism is unreasonable
(November 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Well, that would mean that I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of mankind, and that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

You believe in the trinity, right. God, Jesus, the holy spirit, all the same.

So you believe in god sacrificing himself on the cross to himself.

I wonder how much twisting your brain can actually endure.
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#27
RE: Atheism is unreasonable
(November 2, 2014 at 2:10 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: You can theorize all you like...until you can demonstrate it...until it is demonstrated by tests/repeated experiment, then it is just a theory.

Aaaaaaaand there it is.
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#28
RE: Atheism is unreasonable
(November 2, 2014 at 2:10 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: You can theorize all you like...until you can demonstrate it...until it is demonstrated by tests/repeated experiment, then it is just a theory.

Nonsense. Theories need not have repeated experiments in order to be validated. Don't take my word for it; look up theories like stellar formation.

Also, the construct "just a theory" in your post leads me to believe that you don't understand the importance of a theory in the scientific hierarchy of understanding. In other words, you're equivocating two different connotations of the word "theory".

Perhaps you should have paid more attention in your high-school science classes.

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#29
RE: Atheism is unreasonable
Probably dropped out in the 8th grade.

Jesus likes them stupid, you know.
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#30
RE: Atheism is unreasonable
No it's "just a hypothesis", not "just a theory". Or better, a class of hypotheses. Do you know the difference?

Anyways - all we need here to demolish your argument is that it is a plausible hypothesis. No God needed. Next.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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