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(March 16, 2015 at 1:13 am)snowtracks Wrote: Even the English word 'day' requires context, i.e., " in their grandfather's day", or "day of the dinosaurs". The creation passages are completely harmonious with science when the Hebrew word 'Yom' is correctly interpreted in context as 'a long but finite period of time'.
In other words, you're suggesting it was meant in the sense of era? Unlikely, but if so there remains the more difficult problem of of how and in what order, not to mention what kind of universe god created.
Day One: God creates heavens and earth and separates light from darkness. So light and darkness were all mixed up until the earth was created and after that they were neatly separated?
Day Two: God makes a vault in the sky to separate the waters from the waters. Wait a minute a vault in the sky holding back water. Really? Care to explain that one? Didn't hear about any of the space launches hitting a vault. No little trip through the vast sky born lake either.
Day Three: God gathers the water under the sky to make dry land and puts vegetation on the land. Funny, but I thought the fish came first. Maybe not. But I'm sure ocean critters came first, if not actual fish.
Day Four: God add light to vault in the sky, the sun and moon respectively, also the stars. Also he separated day from night. Apparently they were all mixed up before. Ooops, didn't the stars come before the earth and the moon later yet? Oh and how do you get vegetation before the sun?
Day Five: God creates the fishes and birds. Whoops, the birds come after the land born creatures.
Day Six: God creates animals on land including livestock. And he created humans. Okay, livestock was a breeding process really, a little bit of man made evolution in fact.
Oh but wait. . .that's only Genesis 1. That's not how it really was, there's another creation account in Genesis 2. This time god creates man before vegetation or rain, but there were streams. Apparently without man to sow the seeds there could be no vegetation or at least that's what it says. But, before that god had planted a garden to put man in. At some indeterminate time god had made the animals and now he asked the man to name them. Then he made Eve out of Adam's rib.
That story doesn't work very well either.
I really don't think make the days into eras even begins to solve the problems with Genesis.
Day 6 (portion before humanity) - The 6’th day mentions 3 specialized kinds of land mammals - the kinds most crucial to humanity’s needs. 1) Livestock 2) Wild animals 3) Rodents and hares. Livestock for agriculture, Wild animals to maintain the vitality of the herbivores, and some have been tamed to provide service and comfort. Creatures along the ground - used for warmth thru the cold weather cycles, medical research, etc.
Now the conditions are in place for God’s ultimate purpose for creating the world; God now turns His attention to shaping the first human.
Atheist Credo: An universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
May 13, 2015 at 12:48 am (This post was last modified: May 13, 2015 at 12:55 am by snowtracks.)
(March 17, 2015 at 8:19 pm)Jenny A Wrote:
(March 16, 2015 at 1:13 am)snowtracks Wrote: Even the English word 'day' requires context, i.e., " in their grandfather's day", or "day of the dinosaurs". The creation passages are completely harmonious with science when the Hebrew word 'Yom' is correctly interpreted in context as 'a long but finite period of time'.
In other words, you're suggesting it was meant in the sense of era? Unlikely, but if so there remains the more difficult problem of of how and in what order, not to mention what kind of universe god created.
Day One: God creates heavens and earth and separates light from darkness. So light and darkness were all mixed up until the earth was created and after that they were neatly separated?
Day Two: God makes a vault in the sky to separate the waters from the waters. Wait a minute a vault in the sky holding back water. Really? Care to explain that one? Didn't hear about any of the space launches hitting a vault. No little trip through the vast sky born lake either.
Day Three: God gathers the water under the sky to make dry land and puts vegetation on the land. Funny, but I thought the fish came first. Maybe not. But I'm sure ocean critters came first, if not actual fish.
Day Four: God add light to vault in the sky, the sun and moon respectively, also the stars. Also he separated day from night. Apparently they were all mixed up before. Ooops, didn't the stars come before the earth and the moon later yet? Oh and how do you get vegetation before the sun?
Day Five: God creates the fishes and birds. Whoops, the birds come after the land born creatures.
Day Six: God creates animals on land including livestock. And he created humans. Okay, livestock was a breeding process really, a little bit of man made evolution in fact.
Oh but wait. . .that's only Genesis 1. That's not how it really was, there's another creation account in Genesis 2. This time god creates man before vegetation or rain, but there were streams. Apparently without man to sow the seeds there could be no vegetation or at least that's what it says. But, before that god had planted a garden to put man in.
At some indeterminate time god had made the animals and now he asked the man to name them. Then he made Eve out of Adam's rib.
That story doesn't work very well either.
I really don't think make the days into eras even begins to solve the problems with Genesis.
Chapter 2 begins by stating a summary - ‘heaven and earth were created’… and ‘no plants had yet sprung up. But streams came on the earth…’ Then vegetation was next. * text below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Genesis Chapter 2 --- Verses 4-6. This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.
Day 6 (creation of mankind portion) - some terms: ‘Soul’ - An interface between the material body and the nonmaterial spirit. ‘Spirit’ - nonmaterial part of man.
(May 12, 2015 at 2:22 am)snowtracks Wrote:
(March 17, 2015 at 8:19 pm)Jenny A Wrote:
In other words, you're suggesting it was meant in the sense of era? Unlikely, but if so there remains the more difficult problem of of how and in what order, not to mention what kind of universe god created.
Day One: God creates heavens and earth and separates light from darkness. So light and darkness were all mixed up until the earth was created and after that they were neatly separated?
Day Two: God makes a vault in the sky to separate the waters from the waters. Wait a minute a vault in the sky holding back water. Really? Care to explain that one? Didn't hear about any of the space launches hitting a vault. No little trip through the vast sky born lake either.
Day Three: God gathers the water under the sky to make dry land and puts vegetation on the land. Funny, but I thought the fish came first. Maybe not. But I'm sure ocean critters came first, if not actual fish.
Day Four: God add light to vault in the sky, the sun and moon respectively, also the stars. Also he separated day from night. Apparently they were all mixed up before. Ooops, didn't the stars come before the earth and the moon later yet? Oh and how do you get vegetation before the sun?
Day Five: God creates the fishes and birds. Whoops, the birds come after the land born creatures.
Day Six: God creates animals on land including livestock. And he created humans. Okay, livestock was a breeding process really, a little bit of man made evolution in fact.
Oh but wait. . .that's only Genesis 1. That's not how it really was, there's another creation account in Genesis 2. This time god creates man before vegetation or rain, but there were streams. Apparently without man to sow the seeds there could be no vegetation or at least that's what it says. But, before that god had planted a garden to put man in. At some indeterminate time god had made the animals and now he asked the man to name them. Then he made Eve out of Adam's rib.
That story doesn't work very well either.
I really don't think make the days into eras even begins to solve the problems with Genesis.
Day 6 (portion before humanity) - The 6’th day mentions 3 specialized kinds of land mammals - the kinds most crucial to humanity’s needs. 1) Livestock 2) Wild animals 3) Rodents and hares. Livestock for agriculture, Wild animals to maintain the vitality of the herbivores, and some have been tamed to provide service and comfort. Creatures along the ground - used for warmth thru the cold weather cycles, medical research, etc.
Now the conditions are in place for God’s ultimate purpose for creating the world; God now turns His attention to shaping the first human.
Day 6 - (Creation of mankind portion). Within the original language in “So God created mankind in His own image”, God used something ‘old’ (the dust to create the physical body), and something ‘new’ (something not found in previous life forms) which is the spirit. The manifestation of humanity spirit gives such things as consciousness of self, concerns about death and about life after death, conscience (awareness of right and wrong), language capabilities such as ability to carry on a conversation with another, capacity for abstract thoughts. These traits and others are found in every human being (or effortful repression). The spirit of man also gives unconditional immortality --- you may have noticed that the inward person doesn’t grow old unlike the outward person.
Next is Day 7 - The final long but finite period of time which we are currently in.
Atheist Credo: An universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
Quote:Below are the two stories side-by-side for easy comparison - check it out for yourself. And the next time a Creationist tries to foist some Intelligent Design poppycock on you, ask them if the world was created as described in Genesis; then ask 'em "which version?"
Quote:Below are the two stories side-by-side for easy comparison - check it out for yourself. And the next time a Creationist tries to foist some Intelligent Design poppycock on you, ask them if the world was created as described in Genesis; then ask 'em "which version?"
From link (Genesis 2)
Section 1: Plants are created - notice man IS created before the plants are created)
4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genesis 2 gives more details of the creation of man. Starts with heaven and earth (This probably ends the "genealogy" of the heavens and the earth, a history given directly by God to either Moses or Adam)., earth not supporting vegetation until watering of earth, then man. Man makes use of vegetation and animals.
Genesis 2 doesn’t say anything about vegetation and animals being created (notwithstanding before man.) Just some basement dwelling blogger playing games with you posting- "Section 1: Plants are created - notice man IS created before the plants are created) - ‘notice’, just notice all those plants being created, yes created, and before man being created, all those plants.
Atheist Credo: An universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
Genesis 1:29: Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
Genesis 2:16, 17: And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
In the first creation account, god creates man and woman together, then gives them the world and everything upon it as a gift. In the second account, he creates man and limits him to the garden, prohibiting him from eating from a particular tree. The first account shows a god that hands creation over to mankind and leaves them to their fate. The second shows a god who can't help but micro-manage humanity. But most clearly, the first account shows that every plant across the planet is theirs for food, while the second account restricts this considerably and in two ways (1- only plants in the garden and 2-one specific exception to those). Aside from how different the stories are in the way they are told and the way they present god, that last detail is irreconcilable, unless you decide to fall back on "interpretation" for this one as well, in which case you have interpreted it into irrelevance.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
Snowtracks, it's positively adorable how you bend so far backwards to continue pulling this shit out of your arse, but really, you need to stop now, mmkay? Have a little rest.
If you have any serious concerns, are being harassed, or just need someone to talk to, feel free tocontact me via PM
May 24, 2015 at 9:28 am (This post was last modified: May 24, 2015 at 9:29 am by IATIA.)
I am thinking this is somewhat descriptive ...
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
In other words, you're suggesting it was meant in the sense of era? Unlikely, but if so there remains the more difficult problem of of how and in what order, not to mention what kind of universe god created.
Day One: God creates heavens and earth and separates light from darkness. So light and darkness were all mixed up until the earth was created and after that they were neatly separated?
Day Two: God makes a vault in the sky to separate the waters from the waters. Wait a minute a vault in the sky holding back water. Really? Care to explain that one? Didn't hear about any of the space launches hitting a vault. No little trip through the vast sky born lake either.
Day Three: God gathers the water under the sky to make dry land and puts vegetation on the land. Funny, but I thought the fish came first. Maybe not. But I'm sure ocean critters came first, if not actual fish.
Day Four: God add light to vault in the sky, the sun and moon respectively, also the stars. Also he separated day from night. Apparently they were all mixed up before. Ooops, didn't the stars come before the earth and the moon later yet? Oh and how do you get vegetation before the sun?
Day Five: God creates the fishes and birds. Whoops, the birds come after the land born creatures.
Day Six: God creates animals on land including livestock. And he created humans. Okay, livestock was a breeding process really, a little bit of man made evolution in fact.
Oh but wait. . .that's only Genesis 1. That's not how it really was, there's another creation account in Genesis 2. This time god creates man before vegetation or rain, but there were streams. Apparently without man to sow the seeds there could be no vegetation or at least that's what it says. But, before that god had planted a garden to put man in.
At some indeterminate time god had made the animals and now he asked the man to name them. Then he made Eve out of Adam's rib.
That story doesn't work very well either.
I really don't think make the days into eras even begins to solve the problems with Genesis.
Chapter 2 begins by stating a summary - ‘heaven and earth were created’… and ‘no plants had yet sprung up. But streams came on the earth…’ Then vegetation was next. * text below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Genesis Chapter 2 --- Verses 4-6. This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.
Day 6 (creation of mankind portion) - some terms: ‘Soul’ - An interface between the material body and the nonmaterial spirit. ‘Spirit’ - nonmaterial part of man.
(May 12, 2015 at 2:22 am)snowtracks Wrote: Day 6 (portion before humanity) - The 6’th day mentions 3 specialized kinds of land mammals - the kinds most crucial to humanity’s needs. 1) Livestock 2) Wild animals 3) Rodents and hares. Livestock for agriculture, Wild animals to maintain the vitality of the herbivores, and some have been tamed to provide service and comfort. Creatures along the ground - used for warmth thru the cold weather cycles, medical research, etc.
Now the conditions are in place for God’s ultimate purpose for creating the world; God now turns His attention to shaping the first human.
Day 6 - (Creation of mankind portion). Within the original language in “So God created mankind in His own image”, God used something ‘old’ (the dust to create the physical body), and something ‘new’ (something not found in previous life forms) which is the spirit. The manifestation of humanity spirit gives such things as consciousness of self, concerns about death and about life after death, conscience (awareness of right and wrong), language capabilities such as ability to carry on a conversation with another, capacity for abstract thoughts. These traits and others are found in every human being (or effortful repression). The spirit of man also gives unconditional immortality --- you may have noticed that the inward person doesn’t grow old unlike the outward person.
Next is Day 7 [hide] - The final long but finite period of time which we are currently in.
The 7'th Day
After the 6’th day - the final act of God’s creative activity (man) for this universe - the 7’th day which we’re currently are in, hasn’t had any creation. The 7’th day (like the previously 6 days is again defined literally as a long but finite period of time as used in Genesis.) - Hebrew has 4 literal meaning of the word ‘day’ (yom) which one is used depends on context, etc.
In terms of creative activity, the scientific record affirms the continuance of the 7’th day - the cessation of aggressive speciation (occurs when a group within a species separates from other members of its species). Per the fossil record, new life forms proliferated though the million of years prior to human history. According to environmentalists Paul and Anne Ehrlich “It has been more than a century since Darwin started biologist thinking about speciation and the production of a new animal species in nature has yet to be documented *. Plants - no unequivocal new species - what new plants there are, most scientists believe are new breeds, strains of the old species.
God will resume His creative activity with the new creation after this current universe is destroyed for it will have served it’s purpose (“All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll;”). The book of nature is one source of information, the other, the book of God’s revelation, gives some additional handy information.
* - Page 23 (ref from eBook public library).
Atheist Credo: An universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
(May 13, 2015 at 12:48 am)snowtracks Wrote: Chapter 2 begins by stating a summary - ‘heaven and earth were created’… and ‘no plants had yet sprung up. But streams came on the earth…’ Then vegetation was next. * text below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Genesis Chapter 2 --- Verses 4-6. This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.
Day 6 (creation of mankind portion) - some terms: ‘Soul’ - An interface between the material body and the nonmaterial spirit. ‘Spirit’ - nonmaterial part of man.
Day 6 - (Creation of mankind portion). Within the original language in “So God created mankind in His own image”, God used something ‘old’ (the dust to create the physical body), and something ‘new’ (something not found in previous life forms) which is the spirit. The manifestation of humanity spirit gives such things as consciousness of self, concerns about death and about life after death, conscience (awareness of right and wrong), language capabilities such as ability to carry on a conversation with another, capacity for abstract thoughts. These traits and others are found in every human being (or effortful repression). The spirit of man also gives unconditional immortality --- you may have noticed that the inward person doesn’t grow old unlike the outward person.
Next is Day 7 [hide] - The final long but finite period of time which we are currently in.
The 7'th Day
After the 6’th day - the final act of God’s creative activity (man) for this universe - the 7’th day which we’re currently are in, hasn’t had any creation. The 7’th day (like the previously 6 days is again defined literally as a long but finite period of time as used in Genesis.) - Hebrew has 4 literal meaning of the word ‘day’ (yom) which one is used depends on context, etc.
In terms of creative activity, the scientific record affirms the continuance of the 7’th day - the cessation of aggressive speciation (occurs when a group within a species separates from other members of its species). Per the fossil record, new life forms proliferated though the million of years prior to human history. According to environmentalists Paul and Anne Ehrlich “It has been more than a century since Darwin started biologist thinking about speciation and the production of a new animal species in nature has yet to be documented *. Plants - no unequivocal new species - what new plants there are, most scientists believe are new breeds, strains of the old species.
God will resume His creative activity with the new creation after this current universe is destroyed for it will have served it’s purpose (“All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll;”). The book of nature is one source of information, the other, the book of God’s revelation, gives some additional handy information.
* - Page 23 (ref from eBook public library).
You are still wrong dead wrong always wrong deeply wrong get a science book.
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