Posts: 2737
Threads: 51
Joined: March 7, 2014
Reputation:
6
RE: Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better
November 29, 2014 at 8:27 am
If Many worlds is correct, then there is a world where every time you play a slot machine...you hit the jackpot. A world where everytime you play the lotto....you win the jack pot.....every hand of poker you play....you're dealt a royal flush....and so on and so forth.
If many worlds is correct, there is a world in which you do not die. Suppose you are on your death bed. Do you die that instant? In one world you do...in another you live on for another instance. Now lets look at the world where you live on another instance. If many worlds is correct...in one world you will die this instant...in another you will live on for another instance. Now lets look at the world where you live on another instance. If many worlds is correct...in one world you will die this instant...in another you will live on for another instance....and so on...
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better
November 29, 2014 at 9:21 am
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2014 at 9:22 am by Alex K.)
(November 29, 2014 at 8:27 am)Heywood Wrote: If Many worlds is correct, then there is a world where every time you play a slot machine...you hit the jackpot. A world where everytime you play the lotto....you win the jack pot.....every hand of poker you play....you're dealt a royal flush....and so on and so forth.
If many worlds is correct, there is a world in which you do not die. Suppose you are on your death bed. Do you die that instant? In one world you do...in another you live on for another instance. Now lets look at the world where you live on another instance. If many worlds is correct...in one world you will die this instant...in another you will live on for another instance. Now lets look at the world where you live on another instance. If many worlds is correct...in one world you will die this instant...in another you will live on for another instance....and so on...
You're probably right, but since all of these macroscopic outcomes of macroscopic mechanical processes must be effected via quantum fluctuations, the partition of universes (however you measure that) in which this actually happens, will be extremely small, hence giving you accordingly small probability. But you're right that they should happen somewhere as long as physically possible. In particular, from the perspective of each person, one never dies because anthropically one will always find oneself in one of the states where one is still alive. This raises the same philosophical problems as with copying machines or destructive teleporters.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 66323
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better
November 29, 2014 at 9:33 am
"One" will never find "oneself" in any such situation. "Many" will find "themselves" in disparate situations.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better
November 29, 2014 at 9:39 am
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2014 at 9:41 am by Alex K.)
(November 29, 2014 at 9:33 am)Rhythm Wrote: "One" will never find "oneself" in any such situation. "Many" will find "themselves" in disparate situations.
Erm, what's the difference? I wasn't saying that it only works for the chosen one. I was using "one" in the sense of any arbitrary person from their perspective. You're quite the contrarian lately 
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 66323
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better
November 29, 2014 at 9:43 am
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2014 at 9:49 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Its a subject on the periphery of mysticism (not by necessity, but by insistence), I'm always a contrarian about things like that. 
Keep in mind, the crowd we have here..........contains some magical thinkers. They might take such ambiguous language to be an accurate representation. Now look at who you responded to...and the language that was used. It was spiraling the drain already. Even in MWI (not my cup of tea, but hey) there is no "you" that doesn't die in one world and does in the next. These entities would be discrete quantities, not "you" in any meaningful or accurate sense of the word. That language is used to convey the notion generally to people otherwise uninterested in specifics - and down that road lay only tears, often enough- wouldn't you say? Think about all the quirks and weirdness we have to chop down regarding well established shit like evolutionary theory that boil down to ticks of language and miscommunication or flowery prose.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better
November 29, 2014 at 9:50 am
(November 29, 2014 at 9:43 am)Rhythm Wrote: Its a subject on the periphery of mysticism (not by necessity, but by insistence), I'm always a contrarian about things like that.
Keep in mind, the crowd we have here..........contains some magical thinkers. They might take such ambiguous language to be an accurate representation. Now look at who you responded to...and the language that was used. It was spiraling the drain already. Even in MWI (not my cup of tea, but hey) there is no "you" that doesn't die in one world and does in the next. These entities would be discrete quantities, not "you" in any meaningful or accurate sense of the word.
How so? Elaborate on the last part, cause I don't know how you arrive at that conclusion
But sorry, Woody has his moments of clarity, I have to accept that 
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 66323
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better
November 29, 2014 at 9:53 am
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2014 at 9:56 am by The Grand Nudger.)
He may, but that wasn't one of them. In MWI there is no continuity of self (or anything, the entire bit is predicate on the exact opposite). To say that in one world "you" die and in another "you" live is a gross miscommunication. Someone dies, someone lives...but it isn't "you" in any world other than this one. MWI, again, isn't my thing....but it deserves to be laid out in specifics if it's going to be discussed.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 23918
Threads: 300
Joined: June 25, 2011
Reputation:
151
RE: Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better
November 29, 2014 at 9:58 am
(November 28, 2014 at 9:50 pm)professor Wrote: The Multi Universe was invented as another scheme to justify the belief that this place is not unique. Good luck on that one.
Don't you have that turned around? Seems like it is the claim that this place is unique would be the statement more in need of justification.
Posts: 66323
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better
November 29, 2014 at 10:01 am
(This post was last modified: November 29, 2014 at 10:03 am by The Grand Nudger.)
There's another great example of my point of contention that I missed. Prof seems to have thought that because there were "many" this one was not unique, from the POV of MV. Precisely the opposite. In MV there are "many" unique "whatevers". If they weren't unique...there wouldn't be many, just the one.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 2737
Threads: 51
Joined: March 7, 2014
Reputation:
6
RE: Trying to Understand Many-Worlds Interpretation Better
November 29, 2014 at 10:15 am
(November 29, 2014 at 9:53 am)Rhythm Wrote: He may, but that wasn't one of them. In MWI there is no continuity of self (or anything, the entire bit is predicate on the exact opposite). To say that in one world "you" die and in another "you" live is a gross miscommunication. Someone dies, someone lives...but it isn't "you" in any world other than this one. MWI, again, isn't my thing....but it deserves to be laid out in specifics if it's going to be discussed.
Substitute "you" with "doppelganger".
|
