Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 12:38 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The bible and ancient history.
#31
RE: The bible and ancient history.
What the fuck are you babbling about now? Do you ever know what you are talking about?

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/piye.htm

Quote:Most references point to Piye as being the first ruler of the 25th Dynasty. Obviously, different references refer to him under different names. We believe he ruled Kush (Nubia) from about 750 to 719 BC. Piankhi was his birth name. But in various references, we see his birth name referred to as Piankhy, Piye, Piy and Piyi. However, some references point out that his true name was Piye, and that this was wrongly read as Piankhi. His Throne Name was Men-kheper-re, meaning "The Manifestation of Re Abides"). But this name too will vary, being also spelled Menkheperra. Of course, this king, as most others, had several other names which are not generally provided.

Piye and the 25th Dynasty

Piye ascended the Nubian (Kushite) thrown (or at least its northern half) as the successor of Kashta, which explains why at least one reference refers to Kashta as the founder of the 25th Dynasty. Kashta apparently had made some earlier advances into Egypt. But it was Piye who, for the first time, consolidated the rulership of Nubia and Egypt.

From the earliest dynastic periods, Nubia was always a matter of conquest for the Egyptian pharaohs, and as such, much of Nubia was often under the control of Egypt. At times, it was very much a part of Egypt, and the customs of Nubia were a reflection of those in at least Upper Egypt. This perhaps explains Piye's seemingly strong emotional ties with Egypt, what he considered to be part of his motherland, even though he was not from Egypt proper.

Piye and the 25th Dynasty

So at least towards the end of the Third Intermediate Period, when Egypt seems to have surrendered to chaos with four kings claiming rule within Egypt, as well as a number of local chieftains exercising control, particularly in the Delta, Piye decided to step in and fix Egypt's problems.

The 25th dynasty was driven out by the Assyrians under Esarhaddon.

But we sure as shit know their fucking names.
Reply
#32
RE: The bible and ancient history.
(December 2, 2014 at 2:46 am)Minimalist Wrote: What the fuck are you babbling about now? Do you ever know what you are talking about?

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/piye.htm

Quote:Most references point to Piye as being the first ruler of the 25th Dynasty. Obviously, different references refer to him under different names. We believe he ruled Kush (Nubia) from about 750 to 719 BC. Piankhi was his birth name. But in various references, we see his birth name referred to as Piankhy, Piye, Piy and Piyi. However, some references point out that his true name was Piye, and that this was wrongly read as Piankhi. His Throne Name was Men-kheper-re, meaning "The Manifestation of Re Abides"). But this name too will vary, being also spelled Menkheperra. Of course, this king, as most others, had several other names which are not generally provided.

Piye and the 25th Dynasty

Piye ascended the Nubian (Kushite) thrown (or at least its northern half) as the successor of Kashta, which explains why at least one reference refers to Kashta as the founder of the 25th Dynasty. Kashta apparently had made some earlier advances into Egypt. But it was Piye who, for the first time, consolidated the rulership of Nubia and Egypt.

From the earliest dynastic periods, Nubia was always a matter of conquest for the Egyptian pharaohs, and as such, much of Nubia was often under the control of Egypt. At times, it was very much a part of Egypt, and the customs of Nubia were a reflection of those in at least Upper Egypt. This perhaps explains Piye's seemingly strong emotional ties with Egypt, what he considered to be part of his motherland, even though he was not from Egypt proper.

Piye and the 25th Dynasty

So at least towards the end of the Third Intermediate Period, when Egypt seems to have surrendered to chaos with four kings claiming rule within Egypt, as well as a number of local chieftains exercising control, particularly in the Delta, Piye decided to step in and fix Egypt's problems.

The 25th dynasty was driven out by the Assyrians under Esarhaddon.

But we sure as shit know their fucking names.

You can't stand it when the Bible proves ancient history and for someone who appreciates history like you seem to, should be happy no matter were the facts come from. Also I wasn't referring to the first black pharaoh, the one I'm referring to was possibly the last, He did however help postpone Assyria's attack upon Jerusalem. I just watched a PBS special on the people who are digging up these sites and answering these questions. Nubian's were tired of Egypt's treatment of them and the great warriors Egypt employed from Nubia, turned on them and defeated Egypt.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Reply
#33
RE: The bible and ancient history.
(November 30, 2014 at 5:47 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: When I was in high school guitar hero was a insanely popular game, everyone loved it. But many in the music business soon found out that many in to guitar hero had a harder time learning real guitar. It was because they made assumptions about the song based on their guitar hero experience. Experience and assumptions they made about the song would be flatly wrong.
I wonder if archeology suffers from the same problem. Perhaps we have been assuming the bible is even remotely accurate. I would propose that we throw the book out wholesale and try to eliminate all assumptions of the ancient world based on the Bible. That way we can start with a clean slate, and draw our conclusions based on the historical evidence. If that eventually does prove the bible accurate then so be it.

All history is corrupted by the views of the people who record it, it's not a problem limited to Biblical studies.

A lot of Americans will tell you that the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was necessary to bring the war to a conclusion. However, there are others who see America as the first and only country ever to use nuclear weapons against fellow humans and see it as a very evil act. The reality of the atomic bombs is relative to the individual, as is all history.

Historical and archaeological studies, by their nature, have highly subjective elements. Sections of the bible is known to be at least 2000 years old (the dead sea scrolls contain biblical fragments that can be dated to approx. 150 BEC), it is a viable historic document, same as the Rosetta stone or the Gilgamesh cuneiform. The story might not be real but the setting is informative.

MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci

"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
Reply
#34
RE: The bible and ancient history.
(December 2, 2014 at 5:22 am)ManMachine Wrote:
(November 30, 2014 at 5:47 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: When I was in high school guitar hero was a insanely popular game, everyone loved it. But many in the music business soon found out that many in to guitar hero had a harder time learning real guitar. It was because they made assumptions about the song based on their guitar hero experience. Experience and assumptions they made about the song would be flatly wrong.
I wonder if archeology suffers from the same problem. Perhaps we have been assuming the bible is even remotely accurate. I would propose that we throw the book out wholesale and try to eliminate all assumptions of the ancient world based on the Bible. That way we can start with a clean slate, and draw our conclusions based on the historical evidence. If that eventually does prove the bible accurate then so be it.

All history is corrupted by the views of the people who record it, it's not a problem limited to Biblical studies.

A lot of Americans will tell you that the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was necessary to bring the war to a conclusion. However, there are others who see America as the first and only country ever to use nuclear weapons against fellow humans and see it as a very evil act. The reality of the atomic bombs is relative to the individual, as is all history.

Historical and archaeological studies, by their nature, have highly subjective elements. Sections of the bible is known to be at least 2000 years old (the dead sea scrolls contain biblical fragments that can be dated to approx. 150 BEC), it is a viable historic document, same as the Rosetta stone or the Gilgamesh cuneiform. The story might not be real but the setting is informative.

MM

That assumption right there is what I'm questioning. I think most of the OT, more so the parts referring Rehoboam and back are so faulty that even the information they give on the setting is likely bad.

(December 2, 2014 at 3:00 am)Godschild Wrote:
(December 2, 2014 at 2:46 am)Minimalist Wrote: What the fuck are you babbling about now? Do you ever know what you are talking about?

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/piye.htm


The 25th dynasty was driven out by the Assyrians under Esarhaddon.

But we sure as shit know their fucking names.

You can't stand it when the Bible proves ancient history and for someone who appreciates history like you seem to, should be happy no matter were the facts come from. Also I wasn't referring to the first black pharaoh, the one I'm referring to was possibly the last, He did however help postpone Assyria's attack upon Jerusalem. I just watched a PBS special on the people who are digging up these sites and answering these questions. Nubian's were tired of Egypt's treatment of them and the great warriors Egypt employed from Nubia, turned on them and defeated Egypt.

GC

Did you miss the part where he talked about how they have variation in spelling from different sources? Hence we have multiple sources.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Reply
#35
RE: The bible and ancient history.
(December 2, 2014 at 2:14 am)Godschild Wrote: . . . . and the Museum of Egypt still has no names for any of the 25th dynasty.

Is it true that the Museum of Egypt does not know the names for any pharoahs of the 25th dynasty ? Minimalist says not true. Who should I believe ? (short of calling the museum itself)

Regards

Grimesy
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Edward Gibbon

Reply
#36
RE: The bible and ancient history.
(December 2, 2014 at 9:31 am)pgrimes15 Wrote:
(December 2, 2014 at 2:14 am)Godschild Wrote: . . . . and the Museum of Egypt still has no names for any of the 25th dynasty.

Is it true that the Museum of Egypt does not know the names for any pharoahs of the 25th dynasty ? Minimalist says not true. Who should I believe ? (short of calling the museum itself)

Regards

Grimesy

The man that cites his sources is always more credible.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Reply
#37
RE: The bible and ancient history.
Don't worry - I have just looked up their email (it's [email protected]) and asked directly whether they know the names of any pharaohs from the 25th dynasty.

I'll post if I get a reply.

Regards

Grimesy
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Edward Gibbon

Reply
#38
RE: The bible and ancient history.
(November 30, 2014 at 5:47 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: When I was in high school guitar hero was a insanely popular game, everyone loved it. But many in the music business soon found out that many in to guitar hero had a harder time learning real guitar. It was because they made assumptions about the song based on their guitar hero experience. Experience and assumptions they made about the song would be flatly wrong.
I wonder if archeology suffers from the same problem. Perhaps we have been assuming the bible is even remotely accurate. I would propose that we throw the book out wholesale and try to eliminate all assumptions of the ancient world based on the Bible. That way we can start with a clean slate, and draw our conclusions based on the historical evidence. If that eventually does prove the bible accurate then so be it.
I think it's a mistake to read the Bible as though it were written to convey history in the sense that modernists use the term. It's an invaluable source for understanding the history of human psychology, religion, as well as containing some brilliant poetry and literature, but severely limited in its usefulness for establishing facts--like virtually everything else written 500 years ago and older.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
Reply
#39
RE: The bible and ancient history.
Any story, be it King, Melvin, Crichton, Carroll, Wells, Herbert or even the bible, can be littered with facts, but that does not make the story true.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Reply
#40
RE: The bible and ancient history.
(December 2, 2014 at 9:59 am)IATIA Wrote: Any story, be it King, Melvin, Crichton, Carroll, Wells, Herbert or even the bible, can be littered with facts, but that does not make the story true.

Yet there's a crucial difference. All the above mentioned set out to write fiction. The bible on the other hand is an account, likely a collection or oral tales of the time, that set out to be the truth.

So as opposed to fictional works, you can learn a lot by analysing the bible. As I said before, not least of all, the code of conduct of the time and culture in question, how their society was structured and that they considered themselves to be a warlike people.

And by comparison you can learn where their myths originally came from.
[Image: Bumper+Sticker+-+Asheville+-+Praise+Dog3.JPG]
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Current Evolution of Ancient Religious Institutions Leonardo17 67 3951 November 22, 2023 at 3:16 am
Last Post: Belacqua
  Without citing the bible, what marks the bible as the one book with God's message? Whateverist 143 43898 March 31, 2022 at 7:05 am
Last Post: Gwaithmir
  Secret hiding place for ancient christians Foxaèr 20 2324 May 11, 2018 at 7:57 pm
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  History Repeats Itself Shuffle 79 16277 August 18, 2015 at 12:42 am
Last Post: Catholic_Lady
  Illinois bible colleges: "We shouldn't have to follow state standards because bible!" Esquilax 34 7404 January 23, 2015 at 12:29 pm
Last Post: Spooky
  New book validates biblical history? Foxaèr 22 4062 December 10, 2014 at 3:38 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Why Ancient Aliens is far more plausible than Christianity FreeTony 30 4753 July 27, 2014 at 11:54 am
Last Post: Dystopia
  Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ' Gooders1002 82 26608 April 23, 2014 at 11:40 pm
Last Post: Mark Fulton
  History of Modern Europe: Rise of Christianity RageaholicsAnonymous 1 1113 September 28, 2013 at 3:42 am
Last Post: Captain Colostomy
  The Bible mini-series on the History Channel Drich 23 6889 March 4, 2013 at 6:06 pm
Last Post: Something completely different



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)