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Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
#11
RE: Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
Ok let's rewind. What do you think atheism is? It's one of the most misunderstood terms ever.
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#12
RE: Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
Welcome, welcome!
Since this is not in the intro forum, we can just skip the pleasantries, roll up our sleeves and get down and dirty.

Beware of the hounds!

(December 19, 2014 at 7:06 am)Antikytherian95 Wrote: I have a nagging skepticism about atheism since it leaves unexplained the most basic questions of our existence and the existence of all things.
So, how would theism answer any of those questions?
god-did-it? That leaves open a hole so big that it becomes far more than a nagging feeling...
Where did god come from?
What is god made of?
How did god do any of those things?
How does god work?
What does god work with? (like a carpenter works with wood)
How would any person on Earth come to know anything about god?

(December 19, 2014 at 7:06 am)Antikytherian95 Wrote: Q- Where does the Universe come from?
Dogmatic atheist- We don't know
"Where" presupposes space.
Some theories posit that space-time (at least the space-time within our universe) began to exist with the big bang. This means that prior to the big bang (whatever prior means here, because there would be no time for events to unfurl), there was also no space... so, effectively, the Universe would have come from literally nowhere.

Other theories posit that the space-time within our universe is a tiny subset of the infinite space-time. Under these, there would be a definite location in space and time for the Universe, although the big bang prevents us from ever measuring anything about that... or even from knowing it.

So, yes, in actuality, we cannot say for certain.
Can you?
Can a simple belief in a deity assert for certain the origin of the Universe?
Is belief the single factor in the reality of what is believed upon?

(December 19, 2014 at 7:06 am)Antikytherian95 Wrote: Q Why are we here?
Dogmatic atheist- We don't know
"Why" presupposes an intent.

Many disciplines are involved with the "how" we got here, starting with the big bang, through stellar evolution, planetary evolution and biological evolution. But a "why" is something I can't tell.
That is what is typically called a loaded question.

(December 19, 2014 at 7:06 am)Antikytherian95 Wrote: Q Is there any meaning to life?
Dogmatic atheist- We don't know but you can just make up an imaginary meaning in your brain (thus living a delusion)
Define "meaning".
My life has meaning... lots of meanings, actually.
An ant's life must have its own meaning - the betterment of the colony, at least.

Whatever meaning an individual life's has, why would the belief in the existence of a god not be what you describe as "imaginary meaning in your brain"?... only you'd be unable to identify it as such, given your bias brought on by the belief itself.

(December 19, 2014 at 7:06 am)Antikytherian95 Wrote: Q Is there good and evil?
Dogmatic atheist (Dawkins)- There is no good and evil, we all dance to the tune of our DNA
"good" and "evil" are well defined, absent of a deity:


good:
adjective
1. morally excellent; virtuous; righteous; pious: a good man.
2. satisfactory in quality, quantity, or degree: a good teacher; good health.
3. of high quality; excellent.
4. right; proper; fit: It is good that you are here. His credentials are good.
5. well-behaved: a good child.
6. kind, beneficent, or friendly: to do a good deed.
7. honorable or worthy; in good standing: a good name.


evil:
adjective
1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2. harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3. characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.

Very broad words, wouldn't you agree?

There are good actions, a typical example is helping others; and there are evil actions, a typical example is causing harm to others.
If you were to build a society, a tribe, a family, wouldn't you prefer to keep around people who exhibited good actions, instead of evil ones?

(December 19, 2014 at 7:06 am)Antikytherian95 Wrote: Why then do we put "evil" people in jails? ("evil" is a religious word)
A truly honest Dogmatic atheist- We don't know
To keep them away from the rest of society.
To prevent them from harming the rest of society, thus preventing them from harming the future of mankind.

(December 19, 2014 at 7:06 am)Antikytherian95 Wrote: There are so many questions Ive asked atheists over the years, and their answers just seem illogical, and leave me even more skeptical about atheism.

Thoughts? Thinking

I think it's more illogical to accept an unverified answer as true, instead of understanding why and how we don't know some things, and how we can't know them (yet).
Specially, when the particular answer that is touted as true has been heralded since times of particular ignorance and imagination by humanity.
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#13
RE: Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
How about giving answers to those questions from the point of view of your beliefs?
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#14
RE: Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
(December 19, 2014 at 7:06 am)Antikytherian95 Wrote: I have a nagging skepticism about atheism since it leaves unexplained the most basic questions of our existence and the existence of all things.
Well.....I could just explain them to you, if you'd like....so long as the accuracy of the explanation is of no consequence to you. That said, why should atheism answer these questions....and how -would it-? I'm not so sure what you're skeptical -about-.

Quote:Q- Where does the Universe come from?
Dogmatic atheist- We don't know
Well, we don't. I could make shit up for you if it would be more satisfying...but I'm guessing, you're being a skeptic...that it wouldn't.

Quote:Q Why are we here?
Dogmatic atheist- We don't know
Meh, I know why -I'm- here.....but of course I would...since I decided that for myself.

Quote:Q Is there any meaning to life?
Dogmatic atheist- We don't know but you can just make up an imaginary meaning in your brain (thus living a delusion)
To mine, sure. Again, I decided that for myself - it's difficult to see why that makes my meaning imaginary, or a delusion. I made the choice, now I live it. Is there actually a wrong answer here?

Quote:Q Is there good and evil?
Dogmatic atheist (Dawkins)- There is no good and evil, we all dance to the tune of our DNA
Meh, I have no trouble distinguishing good from evil.

Quote:Why then do we put "evil" people in jails? ("evil" is a religious word)
A truly honest Dogmatic atheist- We don't know
In a perfect world, for the public good/safety. It doesn't really matter what we think of a persons actions - with regards to jail. There are already plenty of things you and I might cvall unethical or even evil that -are not- illegal, and they should remain that way. On the other hand, there are things that are illegal that perhaps you and I do not see as unethical or evil and just might have nothing to do with the public good/safety. We could probably jail far fewer people than we do, regardless of whatever justification we offer.

Quote:There are so many questions Ive asked atheists over the years, and their answers just seem illogical, and leave me even more skeptical about atheism.

Thoughts? Thinking
If you could point to something illogical regarding atheism itself..then maybe I could understand the skepticism directed at atheism. I don't believe in god...are you skeptical about whether or not I am telling the truth? That's all atheism is. It does not encapsulate my position on the origin of the universe, why I'm here, the meaning of life, the status of good and evil (or what is good relative to what is evil), or whether or not we should imprison any given person or why. However much satisfaction I might get from an answer does not, to me, indicate whether or not that answer is accurate. There are many unsatisfying realities in the world, imo.

-If, instead, you're skeptical of whether or not we have an answer to the origins of the universe.....good...because we just don't know, and any explanation offered deserves skepticism.

-Why we're here and what the meaning of life may be seem to be questions with no right or wrong answers - objectively (nor do I see why there would be a requirement that they did have right or wrong answers). I don't see what that has to do with atheism.

-Similarly, the issue regarding our prisons would be something that does not hinge upon atheism. Good, evil...what should or shouldn't be illegal, what we should or shouldn't jail people for - this is a secular concern that all parties may opine on and being an atheist or a theist or an agnostic couldn't reliably predict anything about a persons opinion - nor would the status of their belief be a valid operant in any function flowing from them. For example. If you were a theist, and believed that god says "x" is evil...that's still no justification to imprison them....we're a secular country. If you're an atheist, and you feel that "x" is evil...that's still no reason to imprison them, because "evil" =/= "illegal".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#15
RE: Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
Just because religion pretends to have all the answers, that doesn't mean rejecting religion is only rational if you suddenly get all the answers at once from another source. That's just the dogmatic thinking poisoning your thoughts.

You've done better than most theists already, but if you want a good discussion you need to apply some of that critical thinking.

Atheism = a lack of belief in claims about God

That's it.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
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#16
RE: Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
Should we let him in on our secret covenants and bylaws?
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#17
RE: Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
Shhhhhh not yet, we don't know if he's ready!
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Reply
#18
RE: Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
It rubs the lotion on its body or else it gets the hose again. I'll wear his pelt before this is over. Hahahahahaha.
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#19
RE: Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
Oh dear, I think we scared him off.

Was I too harsh?
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Reply
#20
RE: Critical thinker, skeptical about atheism.
Hell no. You were a perfect gentleman. I on the other hand probably went to Silence of the Lambs a little early.
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