Smut for Smut

[Thor]

Can I just hold my tounge in hopes that you claim there is no god before I claim there is, thereby shifting the burden of proof onto you?

That doesn't work. You make a claim and can provide no evidence to support it. I conclude that your claim is false. You then say, "Ah, ha! You are making a claim that what I say isn't true! Therefore, the burden of proof has shifted! You must prove that my claim is false! Nyah nyah nyah!"

And you just failed Intro to Logic 101.

[Autumnlicious]

Can I just hold my tounge in hopes that you claim there is no god before I claim there is, thereby shifting the burden of proof onto you?

That doesn't work. You make a claim and can provide no evidence to support it. I conclude that your claim is false. You then say, "Ah, ha! You are making a claim that what I say isn't true! Therefore, the burden of proof has shifted! You must prove that my claim is false! Nyah nyah nyah!"

And you just failed Intro to Logic 101.

You and I kid, we are going places. I especially like your reuse of my earlier "Nyah-Nyah-Nyah" comment on Pippy's nonsense.

[Thor]

I think it is silly to ask me to prove god to you by posting web links, or expounding the dharma, and admonishing me for failing to do so when I decline.

It's "silly" to ask for evidence that your claim is true? My, my....

So I repeat, could you post links that would dissuade me from belief? Could you prove your side oft he argument by recommending a documentary? I think not, and reasonably so.

And, you're wrong! Try checking out http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/ or http://www.freethought.mbdojo.com/debates.html or http://godisimaginary.com/

You could also try reading "The God Delusion", or "God is not Great", or "Godless", or "The End of Faith".

I highly recommend all these sources. Of course, whether or not you actually take the time to check them out is up to you. You can lead a horse to water...

---

[You and I kid, we are going places. I especially like your reuse of my earlier "Nyah-Nyah-Nyah" comment on Pippy's nonsense.

Great minds think alike!

[Pippy]

See... Sigh... I thought I made it clear. My beliefs are my own, and I don't think there is a website that portrays them. I refuse to present proof simple because I can't. But know DownBeat and Thor, you have posted a bunch of links. I have to smile at that. I don't want to see what websites made you hold the opinion you do. If you r beliefs can be proven with the 'evidence' available on the net, then I find them laughable. And why won't god heal amputees.com!?! That's hilarious. The biggest fallacy of non belief. There is no god, but why doesn't she provide miracles? God won't heal amputees because it isn't her job. I mean seriously, you're moved by such an argument? I thought it was allegorical, but the website launches into a long winded explanation about how 'why can't god heal amputees' is the greatest question about god. I am rolling on the floor here. Fucking hilarious. God made the world. It's like when people bitch about how the sun may go supernova and kill us all. They get all pissy, like "how dare you sun!". But hey, the sun made all of this possible. If the sun giveth the sun taketh away. So yeah, god doesn't heal amputees. But god made the world in which you are alive and still have 3 limbs. Is she all that bad? You don't just want to be humble to be alive, but want god to make sure your life is perfect? I mean that has to be the stupidest argument for disbelief I can think of. Other than the whole 'the bible made me an atheist'. I am unimpressed. Is that denial of the evidence that exists on why won't god heal amputees.com? Hahahaha I'm gonna tell my friends about that one.

"You could also try reading "The God Delusion", or "God is not Great", or "Godless", or "The End of Faith". "
Ummmmm. Did you just get here? I have read the god delusion, and blind watchmaker, and god is not great, and that new one about evolution and literal genesis creationism. I am well versed in Dawkins, I have read some of his essays from when he was younger. I find him to be not only full of shit, but full of himself. He defines beleif is a way that is untrue, and then goes on to write book after book based on a definition that is his own. I can do that. I define atheism as the non belief because belief scares these witless little fecks. Now I will go on to write book after book creating a whole little army of self righteous arrogant twerps who think that their beliefs are based on science and fact, and they are right and everyone else is delusional. I also think he, with all of his intelligence, misunderstands and over states Darwinism. Would you read Dawkins God by Alister McGrath? I already read the books you recommended. I am unimpressed, am I denying the truth that Dawkins has shone?

"It's "silly" to ask for evidence that your claim is true? My, my...."
So you disagree? You really think those websites you posted are evidence? Is that the best you have? I, unlike yourself, can't think of a website that encompasses what I believe. I just tried to argue ID with Tavarish, and he thought I was party to someone who argued that fish came into existence with their scales already on! I laughed and laughed. I make up my own mind, I can't just point you to Loose Change: Final Edition, and say "that is what convinced me". Please try to understand. I didn't expect you to post links, and I certainly cannot think of any. Proof that god exists, if you want to find god find her, if not then not. I don't care.

I am poitoing out that your logic is flawed, how did I fail? If I say I beleive there is a god that made the world, I am making a claim that demands website links as evidence. If you claim there is not god, you're not making a claim but stating a proven scientific fact. Terrible double standard. So I thought I would try to explain that I expect no one to be able to literally 'prove' their beliefs with links to 'evidence' available on the net, and in response you post a link to whywontgodhealamputees.com. I don't think you got it. See if I am making a claim, then I need onlt wait a moment, and you will make a claim as well. Then who is the Burden upon?

Please don't post websites to try to convince me. If you are trying to entertain, I will be laughing about that stupid website all night. Whywongodhealamputees.com. hahahahaha that's fresh!

I appreciate your responses, god of thunder, but you're being difficult. To much Dawkins has made you rude and mean spirited. The point of this existance is not to try to find ways to disagree, but to try very hard to get along. I respect your beliefs, but I get the impression that favour is not returned. If you think you are right and I am wrong, and not just that we disagree, you are well on the way to fanaticism.

I also appreciate your response downbeat. but you also posted links to docu's. Please don't show me what moves you to beleive what you do, as I will likley find it laughable, and then will inadvertently make fun of things very important to you. It's not like after Loose Change I 'woke up' to the 9/11 truth, ut that from day one I knew. Because of my history with America, and what I knew of America's history, I just knew. How do I post a link that shows that I had studied Americana for years and years? If you guys were moved into your beliefs by web movies, I think you need to spend more time taking responsibility for you own minds.

Thank you for your time, and I hope to get my point across with out too much offense.

-Pip

[Thor]

And why won't god heal amputees.com!?! That's hilarious.

Gee... you scoff at the material I present. What a surprise.

The biggest fallacy of non belief. There is no god, but why doesn't she provide miracles? God won't heal amputees because it isn't her job. I mean seriously, you're moved by such an argument?

And, apparently you've managed to miss the entire point the website is trying to make. Believers constantly talk about the "miracles" that this deity has performed. They claim that people have been cured of all types of diseases! They claim that folks have had their arthritis eliminated! Their sight has been restored! Etc, etc... But, strangely, these "miracles" never involve people having their missing limbs, eyeballs or severed spinal cords restored. And you want to know why we would ask "why doesn't god provide miracles"? I don't ask this question. It is believers who claim that miracles occur! I want to know why this deity never heals an amputee. What does this deity have against amputees?

God made the world.

Ya got any evidence to back up this statement? Yeah, didn't think so.

It's like when people bitch about how the sun may go supernova and kill us all. They get all pissy, like "how dare you sun!".

What are you talking about? I've never heard anyone make this ridiculous statement.

So yeah, god doesn't heal amputees. But god made the world in which you are alive and still have 3 limbs.

Again with the claim that "God made the world". And the evidence that this claim is true is....?

Is she all that bad?

Imagine that you lost your legs in a car accident. I can have your legs regenerate simply by snapping my fingers. It takes no effort on my part. You ask me to snap my fingers and restore your legs. I refuse. Would you think of me as a good guy?

You don't just want to be humble to be alive, but want god to make sure your life is perfect?

And here's a canard I've heard from believers many times. Who said anything about having a "perfect life"? I'm simply asking why this deity who, according to believers, performs miracles every day, has never restored the missing limbs of an amputee. I'm just taking what believers claim to be true and pointing out a rather large inconsistency.

See if I am making a claim, then I need onlt wait a moment, and you will make a claim as well. Then who is the Burden upon?

The only claim I have made is that there is no evidence to support your claim. The burden of proof remains with you. Why do you not understand this?

[tavarish]

"Sex is great and pornography spoils it" Very good point. That desensitization to sexual stimuli leads to porn addicts having less fun in the sack... Thank you Frodo.

"Oh, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post these web sites that 'prove the existence of God'"
Thor, god of thunder, I don't think you've been listening fully. I made the point repetedly that I did not garnish my opinion of belief in god from reading a website or a book. I made the point that the only way I could find a website to link to as "proof" would be to make my own. I said multiple times that in my opinion, that I know of, there are no web sites I can link to to prove god. Are there any you can link to to disprove her? Are your opinions availble in full on the web?

Long and short, there are no such sites. Thank you.

-Pip

So you openly acknowledge that you're making shit up to fit a pre-determined belief.

Oh yeah, and I looked at that trial Tavarish. That is a load. It took about a minute to find the part where the opening statements were, and the guy said that a definition of ID is that fish were created with their scales on already. I am not on board with that. There is no way for that to be the case. I don't know if this is like homeopathy, that the word means far different things to different people... Or if this is that I misunderstood ID... If I did, then I redefine my own interpretation of ID theory (as if I already hadn't). But fish with scales already, not a chance. ID, to me, means that god started the top spinning, and stepped back and calmly watched it spin. That the systems are designed, but that god doesn't like to reach down and make miracles. That the real miracle is the creation of this material world. Fish with scales, I would have laughed them out of court as well...

That's deism, which has its own issues.

---

"It's "silly" to ask for evidence that your claim is true? My, my...."
So you disagree? You really think those websites you posted are evidence? Is that the best you have? I, unlike yourself, can't think of a website that encompasses what I believe. I just tried to argue ID with Tavarish, and he thought I was party to someone who argued that fish came into existence with their scales already on! I laughed and laughed. I make up my own mind, I can't just point you to Loose Change: Final Edition, and say "that is what convinced me". Please try to understand. I didn't expect you to post links, and I certainly cannot think of any. Proof that god exists, if you want to find god find her, if not then not. I don't care.

I'm glad you laughed, but you completely misunderstood the point.

You said the complexity of the world could not have come from any other means but from a divine source. I gave you specific refutation to this argument, as well as videos dealing with your exact claim (irreducible complexity of the bacterial flagellum).

Just because something is complex does not mean is was designed. I don't know how else I can explain that to you. I'll refer you to PZ Myers' example:

You see driftwood along the beach. It functions as a wall as well as an ecosystem for microorganisms and sentient life. It is, by all definitions, complex. It has no singular function, but can assume many roles as a system. Who designed this?

I am poitoing out that your logic is flawed, how did I fail? If I say I beleive there is a god that made the world, I am making a claim that demands website links as evidence. If you claim there is not god, you're not making a claim but stating a proven scientific fact. Terrible double standard.

Who the hell is claiming there is NOT a God? Who said website links are the only allowable evidence? Jesus tap-dancing Christ, get a clue.

The only thing anyone claimed here is that a God who performs miracles probably doesn't exist. Since you don't believe in such a thing, why even entertain the question, then go on a tirade of how it's a double standard?

So I thought I would try to explain that I expect no one to be able to literally 'prove' their beliefs with links to 'evidence' available on the net, and in response you post a link to whywontgodhealamputees.com. I don't think you got it. See if I am making a claim, then I need onlt wait a moment, and you will make a claim as well. Then who is the Burden upon?

Still on you, genius. It doesn't shift just because someone else posted a link.

Please don't post websites to try to convince me. If you are trying to entertain, I will be laughing about that stupid website all night. Whywongodhealamputees.com. hahahahaha that's fresh!

HAHAHAHAHAHALOLOLOLOLOLROFLZOMG

I appreciate your responses, god of thunder, but you're being difficult. To much Dawkins has made you rude and mean spirited. The point of this existance is not to try to find ways to disagree, but to try very hard to get along. I respect your beliefs, but I get the impression that favour is not returned. If you think you are right and I am wrong, and not just that we disagree, you are well on the way to fanaticism.

Thanks for the insight on what the meaning of existence is. I don't care what you believe. Just try not to write stuff that's not backed up by anything - you will be called out on it.

I also appreciate your response downbeat. but you also posted links to docu's. Please don't show me what moves you to beleive what you do, as I will likley find it laughable, and then will inadvertently make fun of things very important to you. It's not like after Loose Change I 'woke up' to the 9/11 truth, ut that from day one I knew. Because of my history with America, and what I knew of America's history, I just knew.

Yes, you sound very reasonable. "I just know".

Don't get me started on 9/11 truthers. That's a whole other shade of retarded.

How do I post a link that shows that I had studied Americana for years and years? If you guys were moved into your beliefs by web movies, I think you need to spend more time taking responsibility for you own minds.

Said the person who "knew" about 9/11 truth after watching Loose Change.

If you know something, post it. There are many reliable sources that you can use to back up your claim. If the sources don't operate on the internet, say where you CAN attain them, so people can look for themselves. That's how evidence works. You can't go into a courtroom and say "Yes, he killed her, your honor, I just KNOW".

[downbeatplumb]

Pippy

You asked for links then scoffed when links were supplied.
Whats the deal with that?[/i]

Oh and I never said that those sites were the reason, I dont believe in god because I have never, ever believed in god. Seems likea stupd thingto believe in and I cant understand how peole can do it. Thats part of the reason I'm here, to gain an insight into a way of thinking that is alien to me.

[Pippy]

This has gotten out of hand.

You asked for links then scoffed when links were supplied.
Whats the deal with that?[/i]

I did not ask for links.
I said I would not provide links, because I knew of none that encompassed my views on what we were discussing. I then made the statement 'what if I asked you to provide proof via web link, it would be impossible'. That is not asking for links, in fact I was distinctly not asking for links and trying to get the point across that I don't want to post any or have any posted for me. I am not laughing at Thor, I'm laughing at whywon'tgodhealamputees.com. Certainly I respect his opinion, but if that was supposed to be 'proof', then it is a good example of why I don't want your proof. The 'why does god let life suck' argument is even worse than the 'if god is the first cause, who made god' fallacy. Please understand I did not ask for links and then laugh at them...

So you openly acknowledge that you're making shit up to fit a pre-determined belief.

Hey again Tavarish. That is an incorrect and petty way to decry my statement that I don't watch one movie on the net and am made a believer. That is a jab, and I choose to just duck.

You see driftwood along the beach. It functions as a wall as well as an ecosystem for microorganisms and sentient life. It is, by all definitions, complex. It has no singular function, but can assume many roles as a system. Who designed this?

No one. Driftwood has many little places in the system, but not many moving and interdependent parts. It is a terrible analogy. A driftwood to rebut a flagelan motor... Ohhh Kay.

Thanks for the insight on what the meaning of existence is. I don't care what you believe. Just try not to write stuff that's not backed up by anything - you will be called out on it.

uh oh! I would rather write stuff that is 'not backed up by anything' than stuff that is backed up by whywontgodhealamputees.com. I told everyone I know about that website, it is seriously terribly funny...

Yes, you sound very reasonable. "I just know".
Don't get me started on 9/11 truthers. That's a whole other shade of retarded.

I would rather have you label me as 'unreasonable' that say my proof is on the caliber of whywon'tgodhealamputees.com. The only claim 9/11 truthers make in conjunction is that we are being lies too about 9/11. The fact that we are being lied to about 9/11 is undeniable. Be careful about what side of that specific argument you are on, because one side will be right in time, and one side will be idiots in time. Be careful that you are not stuck on the losing side of that debate. But you're gonna argue that Isreali Lizard People did not do it, and you once heard someone say that, and now I must be saying that, and how silly of me to say that...

Said the person who "knew" about 9/11 truth after watching Loose Change.

Please, if you gonna talk to me, you hafta listen to what I am saying. I very, very clearly stated that I DID NOT just know about 9/11 truth after watching loose change. In fact, that is the exact opposite of what I said. I said that I cannot, as a simple example, post a link to loose change as 'proof' of my truthism, because it was not that one film that made me know. Please let me repeat. Loose Change did not make me a truther, I did not make that claim, please don't say I made that claim. If you want to argue with yourself, stop wasting my time.

Gee... you scoff at the material I present. What a surprise.

Hey Thor, thank you for replying. Please don't take it personally, I am not scoffing at you. If Whywontgodhealamputees.com (now shortened to Whywont.com) is very personally important to you, I suppose I am sorry. But that is a stupid and laughable website. I read the entire Ebook format of it, and it is sooo fallacious. Point one, no one here, especially not I, said that god provides miracles of curing arthritis and shit every day. This is what I mean when I say you guys are arguing at me, but yelling at someone else. I never claimed that god does miracles every day, unless being allowed to be on such a fantastic planet counts as a miracle. And the way he wrote it. I mean come on. He references Amputees with a capital A, and treats them like an orginized group. He had better be missing a limb himself, or he is walking a thin line of taking advantage of disabled people. I had hoped you wouldn't post links to 'proof', and now that you have you see why. If I posted a site that was important to me, you would think it laughable as well. If gets us no where.

And, apparently you've managed to miss the entire point the website is trying to make. Believers constantly talk about the "miracles" that this deity has performed.

I have never made that claim, and do not defend it. I don't care what you or your silly website thinks believers constantly talk about, that doesn't have anything to do with me.

They claim that people have been cured of all types of diseases! They claim that folks have had their arthritis eliminated! Their sight has been restored! Etc, etc...

Again, I never made these claims, and do not defend them. This website is about as stupid as those people. They are both arguing about who is stupider. I laugh at miracle healers too, if it makes you feel better god of thunder man.

I want to know why this deity never heals an amputee. What does this deity have against amputees?

Are you being serious? A car crashed into you. That car was itself a representation of momentum, chance, and other people's free will. It severed your arm, we are all very sorry. You lived, your immune system kept out the junk, your blood and lymphatic systems were able to cope with the loss of an arm. You are still alive, and should consider being humble (thankful, not necessarily to anyone or thing) that you are still alive. But no. It's not enough that God made this world, that she made us in her image, that she loves us unconditionally. It's not enough to live in a world with momentum and free will and chance, but that those things can only work in my favour and as soon as momentum hurts me, god has failed me. So you are the most complex and fascinating (may be miraculous) thing in existence. You are lucky enough, not just to be human, but to be human and alive. And god has something against you because you survived a car crash? God has failed you because you dared lose an arm and she won't make it grow back?

I can't tell you how silly an argument that is. God is not in the business of making arms grow back. It is like saying 'I bought a ticket to fly to Oz, and now I am standing in my backyard flapping my arms. Worst $400 I ever spent, Delta is failing me because I am not flying to Oz yet. God dosn't make arms grow back. If that is your best argument against god, find another.

Imagine that you lost your legs in a car accident. I can have your legs regenerate simply by snapping my fingers. It takes no effort on my part. You ask me to snap my fingers and restore your legs. I refuse. Would you think of me as a good guy?

Good try, allow me. Imagine you lost your legs in a car accident. I can regenerate them simply. It takes very little effort on my part. You ask. I refuse. I explain that causality and free will trump everything else in this reality. I cannot just give you legs back, or I would have to give everyone everything they wanted. Unless you want god to fix you legs, and fuck everyone else's prayers. But imagine if you would how we would be able to learn or grow if I held your hand every minute. If choices and chances did not have good or bad outcomes, what would be the point? If you still wanted me to break the rules of existence to fix your stupid legs instead of dealing with it like everyone else does, would you think of yourself as a good guy?

I'm simply asking why this deity who, according to believers, performs miracles every day, has never restored the missing limbs of an amputee. I'm just taking what believers claim to be true and pointing out a rather large inconsistency.

Ah, it is only an inconsistency if I myself ever claimed that god 'performs miracles every day'. Here we are again, with you arguing against things I did not say and do not believe. The miracle god performs is that we can lose our limbs. Think about it.

Thank you both for taking the time. I hope not to be too rude, but I have to give salt for salt. I appreciate your opinions, and thank you for sharing them. Until next time.

-Pippy

[tavarish]

This has gotten out of hand.

I agree.

I did not ask for links.
I said I would not provide links, because I knew of none that encompassed my views on what we were discussing. I then made the statement 'what if I asked you to provide proof via web link, it would be impossible'. That is not asking for links, in fact I was distinctly not asking for links and trying to get the point across that I don't want to post any or have any posted for me. I am not laughing at Thor, I'm laughing at whywon'tgodhealamputees.com. Certainly I respect his opinion, but if that was supposed to be 'proof', then it is a good example of why I don't want your proof. The 'why does god let life suck' argument is even worse than the 'if god is the first cause, who made god' fallacy. Please understand I did not ask for links and then laugh at them...

That's actually EXACTLY what you did:

So I repeat, could you post links that would dissuade me from belief?

Hey again Tavarish. That is an incorrect and petty way to decry my statement that I don't watch one movie on the net and am made a believer. That is a jab, and I choose to just duck.

We'll get to this.

No one. Driftwood has many little places in the system, but not many moving and interdependent parts. It is a terrible analogy. A driftwood to rebut a flagelan motor... Ohhh Kay.

An ecosystem doesn't have interdependent parts? Really?

Did you even watch the video I provided for you about the flagellan motor? It seems like you didn't learn a damn thing.

uh oh! I would rather write stuff that is 'not backed up by anything' than stuff that is backed up by whywontgodhealamputees.com. I told everyone I know about that website, it is seriously terribly funny...

You would rather write gibberish than write things that have evidence to back up their claims. I didn't provide the link, I didn't make the link, nor do I support the link.

I would rather have you label me as 'unreasonable' that say my proof is on the caliber of whywon'tgodhealamputees.com. The only claim 9/11 truthers make in conjunction is that we are being lies too about 9/11. The fact that we are being lied to about 9/11 is undeniable.

Evidence for this claim please. It's a pretty bold claim. Lied to by whom? What lies are they telling? How do you know?

Be careful about what side of that specific argument you are on, because one side will be right in time, and one side will be idiots in time. Be careful that you are not stuck on the losing side of that debate. But you're gonna argue that Isreali Lizard People did not do it, and you once heard someone say that, and now I must be saying that, and how silly of me to say that...

Right in time? Does that make any sense to you? I'm on the side that has evidence and peer reviewed and well-respected scholarly journals. Why would it matter to me what side I'm on? Do you even know how science works? It's not about what you WANT to happen, it's about what really happened. Just because you don't like the government doesn't mean they're guilty of something, much less killing 3,000 people and orchestrating such a gigantic clusterfuck of mayhem without a single hitch, despite having literally thousands of loose ends and people that would have been "in on it".

I used to be a 9/11 truther. It's all garbage made by people who have their own agenda and want to promote their products. Loose Change? In Plane Sight?. Zeitgeist?

Do an hour's worth of research on their claims and you'll realize it's all easily disproven or flat out false.


Why would you assume I thought you blame Lizard people for this?

Please, if you gonna talk to me, you hafta listen to what I am saying. I very, very clearly stated that I DID NOT just know about 9/11 truth after watching loose change. In fact, that is the exact opposite of what I said.

Actually it isn't. I said you asserted that you knew the truth, exactly what you said.

It's not like after Loose Change I 'woke up' to the 9/11 truth, (b)ut that from day one I knew.

I said that I cannot, as a simple example, post a link to loose change as 'proof' of my truthism, because it was not that one film that made me know. Please let me repeat. Loose Change did not make me a truther, I did not make that claim, please don't say I made that claim. If you want to argue with yourself, stop wasting my time.

You need to learn how to form your sentences a bit better.

It's not like after Loose Change I 'woke up' to the 9/11 truth, (b)ut that from day one I knew.

This would mean that before Loose Change, you did not know.

But no. It's not enough that God made this world, that she made us in her image, that she loves us unconditionally.

Stop right there. You said earlier that you believed in a God that did not interfere. So she loves us, but not enough to actually do anything? Why is that?

It's not enough to live in a world with momentum and free will and chance, but that those things can only work in my favour and as soon as momentum hurts me, god has failed me. So you are the most complex and fascinating (may be miraculous) thing in existence. You are lucky enough, not just to be human, but to be human and alive. And god has something against you because you survived a car crash? God has failed you because you dared lose an arm and she won't make it grow back?

You're missing the point and making an argument where there was none. It's a direct refutation to those who make the claim that God provides miracles and intervened. You don't believe that, so stop wasting your time with drawn out replies, since it's completely irrelevant to the conversation.

Imagine that you lost your legs in a car accident. I can have your legs regenerate simply by snapping my fingers. It takes no effort on my part. You ask me to snap my fingers and restore your legs. I refuse. Would you think of me as a good guy?

Good try, allow me. Imagine you lost your legs in a car accident. I can regenerate them simply. It takes very little effort on my part. You ask. I refuse. I explain that causality and free will trump everything else in this reality. I cannot just give you legs back, or I would have to give everyone everything they wanted. Unless you want god to fix you legs, and fuck everyone else's prayers. But imagine if you would how we would be able to learn or grow if I held your hand every minute. If choices and chances did not have good or bad outcomes, what would be the point? If you still wanted me to break the rules of existence to fix your stupid legs instead of dealing with it like everyone else does, would you think of yourself as a good guy?

I'll play along.

You being God, have the ability to suspend the laws of causality and free will, as you have done so before via miracles. If you unconditionally love your creation, I don't really see an issue. It's not holding your hand every minute, it's making a leg grow back, something that has obvious positive merits for the rest of the person's life. What made God grant miracles in the first place? (considering you believe creation is a miracle)

[Thor]

I did not ask for links.

As tavarish pointed out, yes, you did.

A driftwood to rebut a flagelan motor... Ohhh Kay.

The flagellan motor was rebutted in the Dover trial.

uh oh! I would rather write stuff that is 'not backed up by anything' than stuff that is backed up by whywontgodhealamputees.com. I told everyone I know about that website, it is seriously terribly funny...

Glad you find it to be so hysterical. Ya know what's even funnier? The Answersingenesis website. They think that dinosaurs lived at the same time as people!

The only claim 9/11 truthers make in conjunction is that we are being lies too about 9/11. The fact that we are being lied to about 9/11 is undeniable.

We're being lied to about 9/11? Lied to about what? Do you think the government has the bodies of little green men in Area 51, too?

Point one, no one here, especially not I, said that god provides miracles of curing arthritis and shit every day.

So you DON'T believe that "God" miraculously cures people?

God made this world, that she made us in her image, that she loves us unconditionally.

But apparently this deity doesn't love anyone enough to restore a missing limb.

You are lucky enough, not just to be human, but to be human and alive. And god has something against you because you survived a car crash? God has failed you because you dared lose an arm and she won't make it grow back?

Nope. I'm talking about the fact that this deity has NEVER regenerated a missing limb (or eye, or severed spinal cord) for ANYONE.

God is not in the business of making arms grow back.

Obviously not.

It is like saying 'I bought a ticket to fly to Oz, and now I am standing in my backyard flapping my arms. Worst $400 I ever spent, Delta is failing me because I am not flying to Oz yet. God dosn't make arms grow back. If that is your best argument against god, find another.

If this isn't the worst analogy I've ever encountered, it's certainly one of the top five.

Good try, allow me. Imagine you lost your legs in a car accident. I can regenerate them simply. It takes very little effort on my part. You ask. I refuse. I explain that causality and free will trump everything else in this reality.

Now let's say that your child is in a car accident. Your child is brought to the hospital with a severe gash in his leg. You ask the doctor to save your child's leg. The doctor says he could do so easily, it would only take some stitches. But the doctor tells you that causality and free will trump everything else. He refuses to fix your child's leg. How would you feel about that? And if you wouldn't accept this from a doctor, why would you accept it from a god?

I cannot just give you legs back, or I would have to give everyone everything they wanted.

Wow, this is a juvenile argument. If this deity does one thing for you, he has to do everything for everybody?

The miracle god performs is that we can lose our limbs. Think about it.

This just makes no sense whatsoever. It's a "miracle" that we can lose our limbs? This is simply asinine.