Evidence God Exists

[AngelThMan]

First and foremost, I would like to define the word evidence. In speaking to atheists, this is always a point of contention, and too much time is spent on discussing whether or not what I’ve provided is evidence rather than on the real subject. Below are the dictionary definitions of the word…

ev·i·dence /ˈɛvɪdəns/ Show Spelled [ev-i-duhns] Show IPA noun, verb,-denced, -denc·ing.
–noun

1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.

Note the terms ‘ground for belief’ and ‘an indication or sign.’ If a meteorologist discovers that rain in one region is evidence of something, and the lack of rain in another region is evidence of something else, and from these observations he forms a theory, then what he has observed is in fact evidence. What I’m about to provide is no different. I have made an observation about something that is real and tangible around us. Therefore, what I am providing is in fact evidence. Basically, I am claiming that there’s evidence all around us that God exits.

I should note that while I believe in God, I am not an extreme bible belt fundamentalist. I believe in evolution, and I am not unique in this. Roughly 40% of Christians in America believe in evolution. We just see it as part of God’s plan. The point is that I’m not here to argue against evolution, but to argue for the existence of God.

I will always speak to you in a civil manner. Atheists, who pride themselves as being intellectually superior to believers, should be able to provide intelligent arguments without profanity and name-calling. Light bantering and snide comments are okay; sometimes that’s part of the fun. But any disrespectful responses will be immediately ignored, regardless of how intelligent your point is.

Atheists love to use the word ‘refuted’ a lot. Just because you say my argument has been refuted doesn’t mean it has been. I warn you that I am a tough cookie, and I’ll likely have an answer for just about anything you post. So if you’re easily frustrated, perhaps you should not participate in this discussion.

Without further ado, here’s the evidence: Humans are the only species, out of millions of species, which have evolved into an intelligent life form. Other species live pretty much to eat and sleep -- survival. If our evolution were only a result of natural selection, shouldn’t other species, or even just one, have evolved into intelligent beings after millions of years? But the fact is that no other species have been able to develop science, literature, art, music and intelligent thought process as humans have. Isn’t this evidence that God exists?

Yes it is, and for several reasons. For one thing it corroborates what’s written in the bible, which is that God created man in his image, and that animals are inferior. But to truly understand why my evidence points towards a deity one needs to be able to appreciate the grandness of this gift that is human intelligence. And you have to ask yourself, why are we the only species, out of millions, that have achieved this type of intelligence? Evolution is about natural selection, but shouldn’t at least one other species, out of millions, have benefited from intelligence? I think so. And there would be a myriad of other intelligent species if there were no God. If you can appreciate the grandness and uniqueness of human intelligence, then you’ll understand why only humans were given this gift, and you'll know why what I've outlined here points to a God.

[Minimalist]

Quote:Isn’t this evidence that God exists?

Of course not.

What it is evidence of is that you have a pre-determined notion of your position based on your superstitions.

[Loki_999]

This should be a short thread....

[Adrian Hayter]

(9th March 2010 05:15)AngelThMan Wrote:  Without further ado, here’s the evidence: Humans are the only species, out of millions of species, which have evolved into an intelligent life form. Other species live pretty much to eat and sleep -- survival. If our evolution were only a result of natural selection, shouldn’t other species, or even just one, have evolved into intelligent beings after millions of years? But the fact is that no other species have been able to develop science, literature, art, music and intelligent thought process as humans have. Isn’t this evidence that God exists?

I dispute your first sentence. All animals have varying degrees of intelligence; we are not the only intelligent life form. Just off the top of my head, I can cite dolphin and chimpanzee intelligence as examples of other "higher" intelligence beings.

What is interesting about all of this is that you place intelligence above all other characteristics, and I wonder why this is. There are single species of organisms that have developed their own unique features, yet you don't presume to use these as evidence of God because they aren't human. So I contend that you are using confirmation bias in your argument, by ignoring other unique features that animals have in favour of humans having things like literature as unique attributes.

It is also interesting that you put "or even just one" as some form of condition on the argument. Tell me, why is having two organisms with unique features evidence against God?

Quote:Yes it is, and for several reasons. For one thing it corroborates what’s written in the bible, which is that God created man in his image, and that animals are inferior. But to truly understand why my evidence points towards a deity one needs to be able to appreciate the grandness of this gift that is human intelligence. And you have to ask yourself, why are we the only species, out of millions, that have achieved this type of intelligence? Evolution is about natural selection, but shouldn’t at least one other species, out of millions, have benefited from intelligence? I think so. And there would be a myriad of other intelligent species if there were no God. If you can appreciate the grandness and uniqueness of human intelligence, then you’ll understand why only humans were given this gift, and you'll know why what I've outlined here points to a God.

Many animals benefit from intelligence. The entire ape family build tools to help hunt and problem solve, ants form a collective intelligence to build a nest and protect the queen, dolphins are intelligent enough to override their natural instinct for sex and do it for fun.

As you say, Evolution is about natural selection, but there is nothing in natural selection to prevent one species from emerging with a unique feature. We are a bunch of apes who millions of years ago "decided" (figuratively) to breed for intelligence rather than any other attributes. We are one of the weakest species on the planet; we aren't strong, we don't produce our own Vitamin C (unlike the rest of the apes), we don't make good hunters without tools, we are susceptible to a whole host of micro-organisms that can kill you easily.

To state that animals are inferior is an overstatement. Whilst we are dominant in the artificial environment we've created for ourselves, in the natural world we are pathetic. Take away our tools and the vast majority would die within a couple of days.

As a final point, I'd like to pose a hypothetical question to you. If we were to find life on another planet, and find intelligent life that resembled our own intelligence (or was slightly less / more), what then would happen to your argument? Would you dismiss it because we are no longer "unique"? If so, I hope I can convince you that intelligence isn't the magical attribute you think it is.

[Saerules]

Off 'topic' a bit here...

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Adrian Wrote:To state that animals are inferior is an overstatement. Whilst we are dominant in the artificial environment we've created for ourselves, in the natural world we are pathetic. Take away our tools and the vast majority would die within a couple of days.

Note also, that even a random branch is a tool, and it would be difficult to keep a 'healthy' human from building or using available tools (If quite crude). You could easily make the argument that if you take away a lion's teeth, that he will probably not survive in "the natural world".

In fact... building tools is as much a part of nature as any other, that it is one of human's fortes is no reason to declare it unnatural. Would a city have been built without a tool building species' involvement? Almost certainly not. Does that somehow make the city built with natural materials by natural beings using natural means to create something that it is in their nature to create... unnatural? I don't think that a special pedestal should be given to tool building species to be able to perform the unnatural... I don't see anything particularly unnatural about our use of tools.

In fact... I can't see any way in which the unnatural would not also be the supernatural. Perhaps one of you would like to help me see the difference?

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Edit: Adrian helped me with this in an IM... but if anyone else wants to respond they can go ahead.

[LukeMC]

I wonder how the argument would go if there were several 'intelligent' species. "Look at how many intelligent species there are! What are the chances that 8 separate species all developped such high intelligence? God must exist for such a coincidence to take place."

[chatpilot]

AngelThMan said: "Without further ado, here’s the evidence: Humans are the only species, out of millions of species, which have evolved into an intelligent life form. Other species live pretty much to eat and sleep -- survival."

Man is not so intelligent as he seems, most animals, birds, and insects display intelligence suitable for the survival of their species and adaptable to their environment. If you measure intelligence on that scale then human intelligence is not something to marvel at. In fact, man has adapted to his various environments pretty poorly if you really want to get technical about it. As stated by Adrian as I was reading your so called proofs that is the first thing that came to my mind. Our bodies, organs, immune systems are pathetic compared to those of some animals and if it were not for our ingenuity we would surely have perished off the face of the Earth a long time ago.

[Ace]

Quote:Isn’t this evidence that God exists?

Nope. Having intelligence doesn't mean there is a god. Also we aren't the only intelligent ones here. There are a huge number of animals with high intelligence. Oh and we aren't that smart. Humans are actually quite dumb. Animals don't burn fossil fuels and cut down forests. Animals don't drop bombs or aim nukes at each other. Animals don't delude themselves with religion. Animals don't discriminate and they don't judge. We are not AS smart as most animals.
I'm gussing that your using the "The chances of this happening on it's own is highly unlikely so there has to be a god" argument? If so then you might as well give up now.
Chances/coincidences doesn't prove there is a god.

[Dotard]

Without further ado, here’s the evidence: Humans are the only species, out of millions of species, which have evolved to include hot chicks. Other species females are not hot. If our evolution were only a result of natural selection, shouldn’t other species, or even just one, have evolved some hot chicks after millions of years? But the fact is that no other species have been able to develop sexy hot chicks as humans have. Isn’t this evidence that God exists?

Yes it is, and for several reasons. For one thing it corroborates what’s written in the bible, which is that God boned a human chick. By not boning female animals, God shows that animal wenches are inferior. But to truly understand why my evidence points towards a deity one needs to be able to appreciate the grandness of this gift that is hot bitches. And you have to ask yourself, why are we the only species, out of millions, that have achieved this scale of sexiy hotness? Evolution is about natural selection, but shouldn’t at least one other species, out of millions, have benefited from hot chicks? I think so. And there would be a myriad of other sexy hot chick species if there were no God. If you can appreciate the grandness and uniqueness of a female human hot body, then you’ll understand why only humans were given this gift, and you'll know why what I've outlined here points to a God.

[Saerules]

Actually... there was one other...



^ Hot chicks... good enough to eat... though a bit boney...