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Stupid Facebook arguments
#1
Stupid Facebook arguments
For a while, I've been posting in an apologetics group on Facebook. There are a handful of users who can be counted on to post very bad, anti-atheist image macros.

This last one was stupid to the point of incoherence and self refutation. Also, watch this motherfucker dodge the questions like a motherfucker.


OP: <posts picture showing the vastness of possible knowledge followed up with "Now tell me again how without revelation from God that you could not be wrong about everything you know".


Me: Tell me how you could know that a revelation from God actually came from God. Tell me how you could know it is accurate.


OP: That is not the question at hand Rob. (dodge)


Me: It absolutely is. The picture claims that you cannot know anything without revelation from God. True or not, I also asser that you cannot know anything WITH a revelation from God, as made evident by my two questions.


OP: Not so Rob, and it is disingenuous for you to make that assertion. (disingenuous asshole calls me disingenuous. Also, dodge.)


Me: Dead serious: how can you know that a "revelation" you get is from God? Even if you did know that (which you can't), how could you know that the revelation is correct?

You can assume both are the case, but you can't know them. If you feel I'm wrong, please explain why. How could you KNOW either?



OP: Without revelation from God you have no basis for reason, logic and all things metaphysical.

So the onus in the op is on the atheist to provide a basis for that and not just assertion.

If you will not answer the question posed, start your own op.
(bullshit assertion + dodge)


Me: "Without revelation from God you have no basis for reason, logic and all things metaphysical. "

Incorrect. This is simply an assertion with nothing to back it. There, I addressed it for you. Two other points regarding your OP:

1) You are correct that I cannot fully know anything. No one can. That's the weird thing about our reality.

2) The catch is, while we can't ever "fully" know anything, you also cannot fully know if a revelation you get is from God, and whether or not it is correct.

So, yes, I was addressing your OP, just not in the way you like. It starts with a fundamental truth (that we can't really KNOW anything), and then puts that assertion on the shelf in a form of special pleading to say that people with special, nonfalsifiable, hidden knowledge CAN know things.



OP: Yet I can point to a source for these metaphysical realities and you can point to time + chance = universe.
....and you think my position is logical?
(dodge)


Me: I don't think you realize how incoherent argument that picture is making. It's saying that knowledge that doesn't come from divine revelation is questionable, and knowledge that does isn't. Now, according to that picture, the knowledge necessary to make the first premise came from one of two places: divine relveation, or something else.

If it came from divine revelation, the premise is circular (you know you have a divine revelation if you have a divine revelation).

If it didn't come from divine revelation, then according to the image itself, THAT STATEMENT IS QUESTIONABLE.

It's either a circular assertion (who cares?) or incoherently self defeating (who cares?).



OP: In your world view, why is circular reasoning wrong? (fucking really?)


Me: It isn't necessarily wrong. It's an informal logical fallacy, which means you can't use it to assert your view is correct. Right how, your claims are sort of in limbo, waiting for something to bolster them other than logical fallacies.


He never responded after that. He tends to do this sort of thing a lot.
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#2
RE: Stupid Facebook arguments
(February 3, 2015 at 4:27 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: For a while, I've been posting in an apologetics group on Facebook.

That's the sort of thing you only do if you want to ...
[Image: 35klu0n.jpg]
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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#3
RE: Stupid Facebook arguments
(February 3, 2015 at 4:39 pm)Tonus Wrote:
(February 3, 2015 at 4:27 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: For a while, I've been posting in an apologetics group on Facebook.

That's the sort of thing you only do if you want to ...
[Image: 35klu0n.jpg]

Yeah. The percentage of people there who base all of their "facts" and "evidence" on fundie world views is staggering.
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#4
RE: Stupid Facebook arguments
It's bad enough to stumble upon a presuppositionalist, but to seek them out?
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#5
RE: Stupid Facebook arguments
(February 3, 2015 at 4:27 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: He never responded after that. He tends to do this sort of thing a lot.

Maybe he is trying to come up for criteria to interpret divine revelation? I believe Drich says that all that is needed is to see if it is biblical, so if you think the voices in your head are saying homosexuality is evil, that's god.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#6
RE: Stupid Facebook arguments
Congratulations! A beautiful line of argument. I never got someone to the point in an argument where they said Y U NO LIKE CIRCULAR ARGUMENT???
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#7
RE: Stupid Facebook arguments
Circles are nice. Therefore circular reasoning. Therefore god.

What don't you understand?
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#8
RE: Stupid Facebook arguments
(February 3, 2015 at 4:47 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: It's bad enough to stumble upon a presuppositionalist, but to seek them out?

No kidding! I commented on a stupid religious meme "disproving" atheism this morning and am a little disappointed it didn't go further than it did, but I don't think I could tolerate fundy shit papering my fb wall...

Here's a whole box for doing what I couldn't:
[Image: kudos.jpg]
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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#9
RE: Stupid Facebook arguments
The "why is circular reasoning wrong?" line is hilarious, but I also got a good chuckle out of "metaphysical realities."
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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#10
RE: Stupid Facebook arguments
(February 3, 2015 at 5:23 pm)Alex K Wrote: Congratulations! A beautiful line of argument. I never got someone to the point in an argument where they said Y U NO LIKE CIRCULAR ARGUMENT???

I see you haven't met our own Statler Waldorf.
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