So It Seems the Anti-Vax Crowd

[psychoslice]

Its funny how this forum has so many people believing they are experts, at just about everything lol.

[FatAndFaithless]

(recognizing that vaccines are safe, effective, and easy is not "being an expert")

[Esquilax]

Its funny how this forum has so many people believing they are experts, at just about everything lol.

Well, we can't all graduate top of the class at Post-Hoc-Ergo-Propter-Hoc University, now can we?

[psychoslice]

Its funny how this forum has so many people believing they are experts, at just about everything lol.

Well, we can't all graduate top of the class at Post-Hoc-Ergo-Propter-Hoc University, now can we?

You would think that's where some of you came from though lol.

[Mudhammam]

I haven't studied the effectiveness of vaccines, but if anyone watched Bill Maher's show tonight, I pretty much agreed with everything that he stated.

I don't trust pharmaceutical companies nor the government boards that sanction their campaign to flood the population with "state-approved drugs." The science of medicine is more or less trial and error, and they have made many of them, retracting practices that at one time were hailed effective or necessary.

People shouldn't be called crazy for being skeptical of certain institutions, and those who believe in the education of science should never respond with simply saying, "it's settled," or "you're stupid if you don't believe." It may be the case in some instances, but I don't think medical science has earned that credibility in the way we might say "round earthers" have (meaning facts that are basically established beyond a shadow of a doubt).

Anyway, I would probably get my kids vaccinated, but no way in hell should anyone be forced to.

[downbeatplumb]

As a matter of fact, the whole thing was started by a English guy named Andrew Wakefield who published an article in The Lancet way back in 1998 claiming a link between autism and vaccinations. The paper has been debunked, withdrawn, ridiculed and villified...but idiot Americans still insist in accepting it.

As the saying goes....you can always tell an American, but you can't tell him much.

The Americans took it and ran with it.

They knew an idea they liked when they saw it.
Their kids weren't stupid it was the vaccine they took as a child, suddenly everything wrong with their kids had a non them excuse.

[Chas]

I haven't studied the effectiveness of vaccines, but if anyone watched Bill Maher's show tonight, I pretty much agreed with everything that he stated.

I don't trust pharmaceutical companies nor the government boards that sanction their campaign to flood the population with "state-approved drugs." The science of medicine is more or less trial and error, and they have made many of them, retracting practices that at one time were hailed effective or necessary.

People shouldn't be called crazy for being skeptical of certain institutions, and those who believe in the education of science should never respond with simply saying, "it's settled," or "you're stupid if you don't believe." It may be the case in some instances, but I don't think medical science has earned that credibility in the way we might say "round earthers" have (meaning facts that are basically established beyond a shadow of a doubt).

Anyway, I would probably get my kids vaccinated, but no way in hell should anyone be forced to.

The effectiveness of vaccines in controlling disease has been demonstrated beyond doubt.

I wouldn't want my children in a school with unvaccinated children, so I completely support the law that says they must be vaccinated to attend school.

[Esquilax]

Well, we can't all graduate top of the class at Post-Hoc-Ergo-Propter-Hoc University, now can we?

You would think that's where some of you came from though lol.

I don't think you know what post hoc ergo propter hoc means.

People shouldn't be called crazy for being skeptical of certain institutions, and those who believe in the education of science should never respond with simply saying, "it's settled," or "you're stupid if you don't believe." It may be the case in some instances, but I don't think medical science has earned that credibility in the way we might say "round earthers" have (meaning facts that are basically established beyond a shadow of a doubt).

I hope you can appreciate the difference between being skeptical based on evidence, and being skeptical based on direct, total defiance of every piece of available evidence. The anti-vaxxers are the latter category; there is no evidence to support any of their assertions, while all the evidence contradicts them, and yet still they hold that position. Skepticism is fine, but when you have no reason to be skeptical, then what you are being is irrational.

[Mudhammam]

I hope you can appreciate the difference between being skeptical based on evidence, and being skeptical based on direct, total defiance of every piece of available evidence. The anti-vaxxers are the latter category; there is no evidence to support any of their assertions, while all the evidence contradicts them, and yet still they hold that position. Skepticism is fine, but when you have no reason to be skeptical, then what you are being is irrational.

Of course. I'm not saying people shouldn't get vaccines or that, as Chas says, they're not proven highly effective. I'm saying people have good reason not to trust the medical establishment or the government so when the focus is pressuring people to get vaccinated (not coercing them) it should primarily involve restoring their own credibility, conducting better efforts to inform the public, and dispelling false information.

[Esquilax]

Of course. I'm not saying people shouldn't get vaccines or that, as Chas says, they're not proven highly effective. I'm saying people have good reason not to trust the medical establishment or the government so when the focus is pressuring people to get vaccinated (not coercing them) it should primarily involve restoring their own credibility, conducting better efforts to inform the public, and dispelling false information.

The trouble is that human beings, especially those who take pride in their counter-stances, don't really work that way. This issue is an emotional thing to the anti-vaxxers, confirmed by their incredibly basic knowledge of medicine and good old Dunning-Kruger bullshit, not something that can be resolved by additional information. Frankly, it's a position that a lot of them are going to hold onto no matter what they're told, because they instinctively mistrust the scientific and medical establishments, convinced they have some ulterior motive.

Case in point: the Wakefield report that spurred the anti-vax movement into existence has been rebutted at every level, from the factual case behind it to the motivations of the reporter, even to the extent that Wakefield himself lost his medical license due to professional dishonesty and abuse of children in that very report... and yet here we are. The anti-vax movement still exists, still insistent that vaccines are harmful: tell me again how informing the public and dispelling false information will quell the anti-vaxxers?