So It Seems the Anti-Vax Crowd

[Mudhammam]

The trouble is that human beings, especially those who take pride in their counter-stances, don't really work that way. This issue is an emotional thing to the anti-vaxxers, confirmed by their incredibly basic knowledge of medicine and good old Dunning-Kruger bullshit, not something that can be resolved by additional information. Frankly, it's a position that a lot of them are going to hold onto no matter what they're told, because they instinctively mistrust the scientific and medical establishments, convinced they have some ulterior motive.

Case in point: the Wakefield report that spurred the anti-vax movement into existence has been rebutted at every level, from the factual case behind it to the motivations of the reporter, even to the extent that Wakefield himself lost his medical license due to professional dishonesty and abuse of children in that very report... and yet here we are. The anti-vax movement still exists, still insistent that vaccines are harmful: tell me again how informing the public and dispelling false information will quell the anti-vaxxers?

That's deeply depressing. But perhaps it might be the case that the anti-vaxers have done a better job marketing their point of view in conjunction with the mistrust created by pharmaceutical companies that want to drug everything, and therein lies the bigger problem?

[abaris]

What I don't get is what the rightwingers get out of it. There are obviously some politicians as well as some media outlets supporting them. What's their motivation besides being stupid? Usually someone is hoping to cash some political dimes riding movements like that.

[Mudhammam]

What I don't get is what the rightwingers get out of it. There are obviously some politicians as well as some media outlets supporting them. What's their motivation besides being stupid? Usually someone is hoping to cash some political dimes riding movements like that.

Surprisingly, it's not a right - left issue. Case in point:

Robert Kennedy Jr. - not a right-winger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkluT1GbAc

[Esquilax]

That's deeply depressing. But perhaps it might be the case that the anti-vaxers have done a better job marketing their point of view in conjunction with the mistrust created by pharmaceutical companies that want to drug everything, and therein lies the bigger problem?

I think it's a lot of things all at once. Fear sells, and the anti-vax movement is all about fear, which is only intensified given that we're generally talking about a product that is administered to children, and if you don't know a whole lot about vaccines then it's easy to make them seem frightening with just a basic idea of how they work and what they're made of ("you want me to inject my children with what?!")

And in the end, the people most inclined to trust the anti-vax movement are also the same people least likely to trust the scientific community, or understand how to properly find accurate information about it. It's sort of a perfect storm of playing on the ignorance and unwillingness to learn that a certain class of people has in abundance, and politically taking a strong stance in favor of vaccinations will make those same people dig their heels in even more ("I know what's best for my child, who are you to tell me what to do?!")

[Chas]

Of course. I'm not saying people shouldn't get vaccines or that, as Chas says, they're not proven highly effective. I'm saying people have good reason not to trust the medical establishment or the government so when the focus is pressuring people to get vaccinated (not coercing them) it should primarily involve restoring their own credibility, conducting better efforts to inform the public, and dispelling false information.

Wait, what? I'm quite sure I said vaccines have been proven effective.

The effectiveness of vaccines in controlling disease has been demonstrated beyond doubt.

Why, yes I did.

[Mudhammam]

Wait, what? I'm quite sure I said vaccines have been proven effective.

The effectiveness of vaccines in controlling disease has been demonstrated beyond doubt.

Why, yes I did.

Sorry, poorly worded. I didn't mean to say that. What I meant to say is, "I'm not saying people shouldn't get vaccines or that... they're not proven highly effective." "As Chas says" was intended, though not written, as agreement that they are effective, and I wouldn't say anything to the contrary (unless I had evidence, and I don't).

[robvalue]

Do these people bother to look at the science and the statistics before trusting their emotional reactions over years of scientific research?

I'm sure they do.

[professor]

This morning my wife was reading a report from a medical doctor showing the lying done by the the establishment about measles.
He pointed out that the public is hearing trumped up statistics and that the highest rates of measles are found in areas with the highest levels of inoculation.
He pointed out measles cases are basically unchanged year by year, but the rate of autism is on the moon.
For every case of measles (which people get over in a week or 2) there are thousands of cases of autism.
Not a word is said. Why?
Maybe it is because autism has been linked to vaccinations.

How much pull do the pharmas have in America?
I am always amazed how you guys fail to follow the money, and swallow every bit of horseshit the establishment throws your way.
They couldn't pull off hysteria about Ebola, so they are trying something else?
Is there anything they tell you that you don't believe?
Lay it on me- I want to here it.

[Esquilax]

This morning my wife was reading a report from a medical doctor showing the lying done by the the establishment about measles.
He pointed out that the public is hearing trumped up statistics and that the highest rates of measles are found in areas with the highest levels of inoculation.
He pointed out measles cases are basically unchanged year by year, but the rate of autism is on the moon.
For every case of measles (which people get over in a week or 2) there are thousands of cases of autism.
Not a word is said. Why?
Maybe it is because autism has been linked to vaccinations.

Citations for all of this, please. Preferably from actual scientific enterprises, though I have even less hope for that than I do that you'll provide citations at all. Your style is more the "assert everything as obnoxiously as possible, while ignoring any form of conversation that might provide facts that prove me wrong," than anything sane.

[Chas]

This morning my wife was reading a report from a medical doctor showing the lying done by the the establishment about measles.

Citation required.

He pointed out that the public is hearing trumped up statistics and that the highest rates of measles are found in areas with the highest levels of inoculation.

Citation required.

He pointed out measles cases are basically unchanged year by year, but the rate of autism is on the moon.

Citation required.

For every case of measles (which people get over in a week or 2) there are thousands of cases of autism.

Citation required.

Not a word is said. Why?
Maybe it is because autism has been linked to vaccinations.

Citation required.

How much pull do the pharmas have in America?
I am always amazed how you guys fail to follow the money, and swallow every bit of horseshit the establishment throws your way.
They couldn't pull off hysteria about Ebola, so they are trying something else?

Bullshit.

Is there anything they tell you that you don't believe?
Lay it on me- I want to here it.

No you don't. You just want to troll.