A question to atheists

[EccentricAlien]

Okay so I don't want you to be confused by the title of this thread, I am agnostic.

So here's the story. A while ago I was arguing with my mom about what we both believed in. She is a very religious Catholic. She was telling me a story about how one time she went into a church and suddenly, the priest or whatever from that church came to her and told my mom that she should get back in a relationship with Mary (Jesus' mother). Funny enough, my mom was a bit "distant" ( I don't know how else[/size][/font] to describe it) with Mary at that time. For example she didn't pray to her and things like that.

The question is: When arguing with a religious person, how does a non-religious person respond with something "supernatural" like that??

[robvalue]

It's such a vague statement that probably any christian would find a way to have it apply to themselves. Especially as Mary isn't usually the focus of attention.

[Esquilax]

There's no need for a response at all: without any indication that the topic under discussion is extant, there's no need to seriously consider it. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you're really looking to move the conversation along, "why?" is always a good choice; "why do you believe that?"

The paucity of content in the answer you get should be most enlightening.

[robvalue]

Indeed. I was going to write that too but then I realized what an extremely easy con this particular one was. I think I may have even heard of it before. It's cheap trickery.

Funnily enough, I'm going to be tackling this exact kind of topic on my blog soon

And no matter what, no one can ever demonstrate supernatural causality. That is impossible. Even if no one in the world can come up with a rational, natural explanation, all that means is that we don't know. Any supernatural explanation can't possible be verified, and any made up one is as good as any other. He was possessed by a special mind reading dragon from China. A metaphysical truth seed nudged his brain. There's no way to distinguish between these and "God told him stuff". Just because he made the prediction and was "right" that doesn't mean he is also right if he starts driveling about supernatural things. It's still up to him to demonstrate that supernatural event, which of course is impossible. So it should be dismissed, along with all other unfalsifiable claims (anything supernatural).

If he says that exact line to a hundred christians he's probably going to get at least 90% finding a way to apply it to themselves and that's good enough for con boy.

Also, people have a tendency to want to make things apply to them. It's why horoscopes continue to fool people. Check this out from Derren Brown, it kind of engulfs this priest example:

http://youtu.be/2bCjzLij54k

[Homeless Nutter]

It's the priest's job to express vague sentiments to people who really want to believe. The ones that don't "fit" are quickly forgotten. The few that do - are blown out of proportion by the recipients. It's the same trick used by frauds who claim to predict future, or talk to the dead - throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.

[robvalue]

I mean, priests are professional con artists. It's their job to get people to believe ridiculous stuff every day.

[Exian]

It would be less predictable if he had suggested Krishna or Athena. There's nothing supernatural about a catholic priest advocating a strong relationship with Mary.

Also, lets consider that your mother had been praying to Mary and the priest said the same thing to her. Either she would agree that her relationship could still be better, seeing as feeling of inadequacy are common themes among the faithful, or she would think to herself that it was odd and forget all about it.

[robvalue]

Poor priest, he's been hit with the sceptic hammer. Now hit him with an actual hammer for being a tool of evil and a fucking liar.

He knows he's making shit up. (Unless he's actually insane.) Especially this cheap line.

[Exian]

Asking "why" and questioning everything that comes across the table is a really good way to think, but acting on it in everyday conversations with people you interact with on a daily basis could get ugly. The important thing is that you learn to think critically, and to choose your battles wisely. Basically what I'm saying is I don't advise arguing with your mother. Some times a smile and a nod is all you need to get through the day.

[Cyberman]

I had this a couple of years ago. A friend of a friend found I was an atheist (cheers, Shell!) and insisted I explained some 'miracle' experience he'd had. I listened, like I had a choice anyway, then said that I wasn't going to respond to this line of discussion - such as it was - for the simple reason that I wasn't there to share his experience and all I had to go on was the information he was providing. The whole exercise is pointless speculation in a perfect vacuum and I'm not into that. Not with him, anyway.