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RE: Middle School Teacher's Memorial
February 19, 2015 at 5:06 pm
(February 19, 2015 at 12:18 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (February 18, 2015 at 6:55 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: The satanist example is used because it is the most "feared" in the community. Most of these "satanist" organizations are atheists using that term in order to prove exactly that point. So when the Gideons hand out Bibles at school, the "satanists" prove the point to the community by handing out coloring books with satanic themes. The result is usually what the "satanists" wanted in the first place---no one gets to hand anything out.
In other words they are just trolling...
Or playing "devil's" advocate?
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RE: Middle School Teacher's Memorial
February 19, 2015 at 5:25 pm
(February 19, 2015 at 4:41 pm)emilynghiem Wrote: (February 19, 2015 at 4:50 am)Parkers Tan Wrote: I don't have a problem with her memorial referencing her faith; under those circumstances it is not governmental endorsement, which is what the Constitution essentially forbids.
And yes, it was a poorly-chosen battleground.
1. I find it's more an issue if people don't AGREE to the religious reference so that it either violates First or Fourteenth Amendments for someone. If everyone AGREES to the expression then it's just free exercise/expression, and not seen as imposing or establishing it OVER people who believe otherwise.
...
I am an atheist, and I don't want memorials on public school property of dead atheist teachers referencing their atheism. If there is to be a memorial on school property (which is questionable), then it should have to do with being a great teacher. The personal, non-teaching related opinions of the teacher are irrelevant and do not belong in a memorial on public school property.
So, no, it is not merely a question of whether one "agrees" with the personal opinion or not. It is a question of what is appropriate in a particular context.
I also don't want references to the teacher's preferred sexual position, whether it coincides with mine or not. (I somehow expect that you will agree with me on this example.) Again, it is a question of relevance and appropriateness to the thing, not a question of agreement or disagreement.
Public school is not a place to be endorsing religion, nor imposing any particular beliefs about religion on people.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Middle School Teacher's Memorial
February 20, 2015 at 12:24 pm
(February 19, 2015 at 4:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: (February 19, 2015 at 11:58 am)Clueless Morgan Wrote: Or no religious symbols on any public ground. 
Why, we pay taxes shouldn't our beliefs be represented as well as those who have no belief at all, it's not the fault of religious people that some decide to have no belief. Don't come back saying churches do not pay taxes, I'm referring to individuals here.
GC
You've heard the saying "atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color" right?
Well, not displaying religious symbols on public property is an much an "endorsement" of atheism as the post office, building department, schools or police station not selling hair care products is an "endorsement" of baldness, in that it's no endorsement at all.
I don't get butthurt when the government doesn't display a Vidal Sassoon shampoo bottle on the front lawn of city hall, just like you shouldn't get butthurt when the government doesn't display a crucifix in the same location.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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RE: Middle School Teacher's Memorial
February 20, 2015 at 12:43 pm
At least they compromise the issue. They are able to keep the angels. The only way to keep the religious tone would be to include something from every religion. This is a public school, and a private school does not fall under this statue of law.
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan
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RE: Middle School Teacher's Memorial
February 20, 2015 at 1:25 pm
(February 20, 2015 at 12:24 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote: I don't get butthurt when the government doesn't display a Vidal Sassoon shampoo bottle on the front lawn of city hall, just like you shouldn't get butthurt when the government doesn't display a crucifix in the same location.
Ah. A fellow Sassoonist. Sassoonery is the one true way.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: Middle School Teacher's Memorial
February 20, 2015 at 3:46 pm
(February 19, 2015 at 4:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: (February 19, 2015 at 11:58 am)Clueless Morgan Wrote: Or no religious symbols on any public ground.
Why, we pay taxes shouldn't our beliefs be represented as well as those who have no belief at all, it's not the fault of religious people that some decide to have no belief. Don't come back saying churches do not pay taxes, I'm referring to individuals here.
GC
So, do you really want "majority rule" on endorsing religion on public school property? Unlike you, most people in the U.S. are not Southern Baptists, so you would not get your religion endorsed, but something a bit different. Do you want the public schools to be pushing the majority religion on your children? Or do you think that maybe it would be better for them to stay out of the matter as much as possible?
If you want the majority religion pushed on your children, I hope a bunch of Muslims move into your school district. The idea that the majority religion should be imposed in public school is a very bad idea.
Also, as Clueless Morgan states above, the absence of a symbol is not a symbol. No one (at least, no one, so far, in this thread) has advocated that atheist symbols should be displayed on school property. So, here is the idea: No symbols endorsing any religion, and no symbols endorsing a rejection of religion, on public school property, is what is being advocated. Insofar as reasonably possible, public schools should not be endorsing any particular views on religion.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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