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You're being overemotional
#11
RE: You're being overemotional
(February 22, 2015 at 10:52 pm)bennyboy Wrote: That's right. I don't think it's wrong to HAVE emotion. I just think it's wrong not to self-edit posts full of cursing and melodrama before you press the "Post" button.

Why? What is wrong with swearing? What is wrong with displaying that something gets your goat? Or that something really excites you? What's wrong with using a bit of damn expression in your words?

Are we supposed to all be boring stiffs acting like we're all so uptight and superior and that every debate or argument we have is going to become some kind of world ending contest that will last for the ages? God forbid we use some naughty words to express outrage, or emotion. I mean these things really shouldn't matter at all should they? Fuck threads that are actually entertaining.

Ever consider that using emotional, expressive language can actually accentuate people's points? Or are you just one of those people who 'gets offended' by bad words.

You seem to equate any 'bad' language as though the intention and purpose is to flame, or derail, or cause detriment. That couldn't be farther from the truth for most people here who post with such language.
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#12
RE: You're being overemotional
Quote:That's right. I don't think it's wrong to HAVE emotion. I just think it's wrong not to self-edit posts full of cursing and melodrama before you press the "Post" button.
In case you haven't noticed this isn't exclusively about internet debates. I usually self-edit posts to avoid showing emotions but when someone pisses me off pretty badly insults are not only acceptable but expected. Free speech means you can say what you want, when you want and to whom you want (according to AF's rules) - The other side of the coin is that if you're being stupid, irrational, bigoted or a douchebag I have the right to call you that and express my frustration
Quote:I've often enough sworn to myself at some answer or point that I consider stupid or dishonest. I might even say in a reply that I consider the post stupid or dishonest. But THAT is a LOT (!!!) Different than FUCKING filling a POST with annoying meta-fucking-comment-fucking-tary!!! R_I_G_H_T!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?
Not everyone does that and I agree it can become annoying, specially if the cause is a simple minuscule misunderstanding, but sometimes people get mad and you trigger a reaction.

I don't like it and I think it's dishonest when people say "you don't have to be so rude" instead of responding to the argument, or alternatively "if you were a bit more civilized I could agree" - Does my point depend on the emotions shown? I understand that people can feel uncomfortable with swearing and emotions but it doesn't give you an excuse to refuse to answer or minimize my argument - Specially if you fucked up or truly stepped on someone's toes deliberately you shouldn't expect people to be overly polite.

That being said I am not endorsing insulting everyone over nothing and throwing personal insults as a hobby.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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#13
RE: You're being overemotional
(February 22, 2015 at 11:39 pm)Dystopia Wrote: That being said I am not endorsing insulting everyone over nothing and throwing personal insults as a hobby.

The difference between flaming/inciting a deliberate negative response and simply using emotive language should be painfully obvious IMO.

If someone's saying something so batshit stupid that it doesn't even need explaining why, to me, it's much more of a purposeful response if someone just calls it out for the stupidity it is and calls the guy a stupid twat. The guy responding is probably going to whine like a bitch but the general audience at least get a laugh.

Also, just because you do throw out the occasional insult, doesn't mean those insults are always just for the person you're insulting. Again, it helps accentuate points. A lot of the times, an opposing position doesn't always deserve respect either. I liken it to Ken Ham versus Bill Nye. Sure Bill spent all day using facts and shit, and he was really respectful, blah blah blah, but when you're talking to someone so dense, sometimes it's better to just call the guy a dumbass and be done with it.
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#14
RE: You're being overemotional
(February 22, 2015 at 10:52 pm)bennyboy Wrote: That's right. I don't think it's wrong to HAVE emotion. I just think it's wrong not to self-edit posts full of cursing and melodrama before you press the "Post" button.

I've often enough sworn to myself at some answer or point that I consider stupid or dishonest. I might even say in a reply that I consider the post stupid or dishonest. But THAT is a LOT (!!!) Different than FUCKING filling a POST with annoying meta-fucking-comment-fucking-tary!!! R_I_G_H_T!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?

This seems to be a little bit of backtracking from your original post.

Again, we aren't speaking a binary language here. You seem not to be able to differentiate between using colorful language and expletives in order to accentuate a point and posts consisting solely of cursing and vitriol.

I don't think you'll find anyone that disagrees with the idea that if a post consists entirely of anger and hate, it contributes nothing to the conversation and is useless and unnecessary.

On the other side of things, posts that consist entirely of bullet points and data will be ignored just as often as they are read.

Sometimes---especially when discussing religion---rudeness and invective is useful and maybe even necessary. Sometimes ideas need to be confronted with reactions that open people's minds up to just how offensive the thing they are saying is. Sometimes, people say some shit that is beneath even engaging, and the best thing for it is a sassy meme or dismissive emoji.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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#15
RE: You're being overemotional
And I'm not even being emotional, I just fucking like to fucking swear sometimes. Fuckfuckfuck.
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#16
RE: You're being overemotional
(February 23, 2015 at 12:02 am)SteelCurtain Wrote:
(February 22, 2015 at 10:52 pm)bennyboy Wrote: That's right. I don't think it's wrong to HAVE emotion. I just think it's wrong not to self-edit posts full of cursing and melodrama before you press the "Post" button.

I've often enough sworn to myself at some answer or point that I consider stupid or dishonest. I might even say in a reply that I consider the post stupid or dishonest. But THAT is a LOT (!!!) Different than FUCKING filling a POST with annoying meta-fucking-comment-fucking-tary!!! R_I_G_H_T!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?

This seems to be a little bit of backtracking from your original post.

Again, we aren't speaking a binary language here. You seem not to be able to differentiate between using colorful language and expletives in order to accentuate a point and posts consisting solely of cursing and vitriol.

I don't think you'll find anyone that disagrees with the idea that if a post consists entirely of anger and hate, it contributes nothing to the conversation and is useless and unnecessary.

On the other side of things, posts that consist entirely of bullet points and data will be ignored just as often as they are read.

Sometimes---especially when discussing religion---rudeness and invective is useful and maybe even necessary. Sometimes ideas need to be confronted with reactions that open people's minds up to just how offensive the thing they are saying is. Sometimes, people say some shit that is beneath even engaging, and the best thing for it is a sassy meme or dismissive emoji.

Well fuck you. You can't even understand a simple point. Everyone is fucking pissing on me today, my fucking grandfather's in a hospital, and you don't have to give a shit but it would be nice if SOMEONE did. OKAY!?!?!?! Just a little human desensy and some cumpasion TOO MUCH TO ASK, righ????!!!!

And if you don't like this post, then piss off cuz what about free speech sometimes a person has feelings and if I have them and you have to read a little about them so fucking what I'm a person too and if you can't find a point in this, then that's only because my dyslexia and the sand in my vagina makes my like this it's not even like my fault so like GET OFF my CASE and HAVE some COMPASSSSSSSION!!!!! ARgh argh arrrrrrrrgggghhhhH! Grrrrr!!!!!!


*shivers because it reminds him of atheismplus* Tongue
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#17
RE: You're being overemotional
(February 23, 2015 at 5:21 am)bennyboy Wrote: Well fuck you. You can't even understand a simple point. Everyone is fucking pissing on me today, my fucking grandfather's in a hospital, and you don't have to give a shit but it would be nice if SOMEONE did. OKAY!?!?!?! Just a little human desensy and some cumpasion TOO MUCH TO ASK, righ????!!!!

And if you don't like this post, then piss off cuz what about free speech sometimes a person has feelings and if I have them and you have to read a little about them so fucking what I'm a person too and if you can't find a point in this, then that's only because my dyslexia and the sand in my vagina makes my like this it's not even like my fault so like GET OFF my CASE and HAVE some COMPASSSSSSSION!!!!! ARgh argh arrrrrrrrgggghhhhH! Grrrrr!!!!!!


*shivers because it reminds him of atheismplus* Tongue

You really are acting like an idiot here.

You're trying to make out like having some kind of emotion in posts is bad, by posting a deliberately retarded post like this to illustrate your point. Nobody actually posts this kind of shit. If they do, then you can bet they'll be called out on it. This isn't even the sort of post the OP was talking about and it's certainly not a post that has the verve and emotion that would accentuate any kind of point, if you even had one.

Clearly you just don't want to understand the difference between a post with emotion, that might have a bit of swearing, and acting like a complete and utter dick. To you they're one and the same. I think to most everyone else they're not that short-sighted.
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#18
RE: You're being overemotional
(February 22, 2015 at 6:47 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Sometimes people get mad and react with emotional states. Often someone will tell the former that they're being emotional and therefore their point is irrational.

I don't like this idea - Being emotional doesn't mean being irrational, it just means you are being emotional. I can make a very good, rationally and logically valid argument that carries emotional baggage demonstrated by my language, tone and/or body reaction. It's not worth less than an argument present with an emotionless tone.

Emotional means irrational if my whole point is supported merely by emotional states, but if I present logic and reason it's still rational.

I just wanted to share this idea:

Someone being emotional is not equivalent to being wrong. If someone tells me that rape is right and I happen to be a rape victim (this is a random example) I will most likely react negatively and enter a very emotional state (anger, crying..), but I can still present a logically coherent argument to counter the former point.

Telling someone you're being emotional and therefore irrational doesn't look like a valid argument for me.

This is also true for atheists, Dawkins sometimes (in my opinion wrongly) classifies his opinion as magically always logical and other people's opinion as emotional (on Twitter), forgetting a point can be rationally valid while clearly demonstrating an emotional side

P.S. - Don't confuse what I'm saying with the famous appeal to emotion fallacy

I don't know about emotions being 'irrational' so much as irrelevant to a point of logic.

MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci

"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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#19
RE: You're being overemotional
(February 23, 2015 at 8:14 am)ManMachine Wrote: I don't know about emotions being 'irrational' so much as irrelevant to a point of logic.

MM

But how useful is logic if there is no emotion to deliver it?
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#20
RE: You're being overemotional
(February 23, 2015 at 8:00 am)SeanBean Wrote:
(February 23, 2015 at 5:21 am)bennyboy Wrote: Well fuck you. You can't even understand a simple point. Everyone is fucking pissing on me today, my fucking grandfather's in a hospital, and you don't have to give a shit but it would be nice if SOMEONE did. OKAY!?!?!?! Just a little human desensy and some cumpasion TOO MUCH TO ASK, righ????!!!!

And if you don't like this post, then piss off cuz what about free speech sometimes a person has feelings and if I have them and you have to read a little about them so fucking what I'm a person too and if you can't find a point in this, then that's only because my dyslexia and the sand in my vagina makes my like this it's not even like my fault so like GET OFF my CASE and HAVE some COMPASSSSSSSION!!!!! ARgh argh arrrrrrrrgggghhhhH! Grrrrr!!!!!!


*shivers because it reminds him of atheismplus* Tongue

You really are acting like an idiot here.
That's right.

Quote:Clearly you just don't want to understand the difference between a post with emotion, that might have a bit of swearing, and acting like a complete and utter dick. To you they're one and the same. I think to most everyone else they're not that short-sighted.
The problem with using emotional rhetoric is that one person's "post with emotion" and another's "acting like a complete and utter dick" are subjective. For the most part, just skipping the emotional rhetoric and making a point is better.

That being said, I will say that some types of conversations lend themselves better to emotional rhetoric than others. If a thread is "How do you feel about rape," an emotionless response would probably represent some kind of psychosocial maladjustment. Personally, I usually participate in threads about mind vs. matter, the nature of reality, and things like that; they rarely lend themselves to an appropriate use of rhetoric.

I also don't like the slippery slope in which disgust with religious ideas opens the door for emotional rhetoric by religious people-- I don't really want to hear ad nauseam how some Christian's relationship with Jesus the Savior has brought sunshine into his life, when the thread is about proving God exists.
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