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MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
#31
RE: MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
(March 8, 2015 at 9:29 am)Aractus Wrote:
(March 6, 2015 at 8:54 am)Brian37 Wrote: RationalPoet......OP/ED..........NO MH370 DID NOT "Disappear". I really fucking hate humans when there is a lack of an answer as to what happened, jumping to conspiracies and magic. Not finding it only means we have not found it. The parts of the plane and the people on it did not magically evaporate. Just like for a long time we could not find the Titanic. We may never find that plane, but that does not mean it there was a magical supernatural power that made it go away.
You example of the titanic is contradictory to your point. Everyone rejected the possibility that the ship had split in two, because some witnesses said that it went down in one piece, and then scientists of the time said it couldn't have happened therefore those who believe it did are misremembering the past. And errors in human memory we know is a very real thing. It wasn't until we found the ship that we realised that it did in fact break into two.

What? I have no clue why you are mixing the Titanic with the plane or any conspiracy for that matter. Yes the claim that it went down in one piece would be a result that the witnesses only saw the part of the boat above the water and had no way of seeing it split under the water. No one however was claiming space aliens sank it or the mafia planted bombs on the Titanic.

The plane did not disappear like magic. It went down, it did not turn into a frog or a unicorn, space aliens did not take it to another galaxy. Not finding the plane does not mean there was a conspiracy. If it had been hijacked by one person or more than one person, we would know by now. Just like there was absolutely no way a diverse government investigating JFK is going to collectively lie about how he died. Corruption and crime existing and getting away with it part of the time does not equate to those who investigating it as being all vampires out to suck your blood.


Quote: And errors in human memory we know is a very real thing.

Um no, errors in human memory are why bullshit conspiracies spread. Otherwise Obama sank the Titanic. Think about all the idiots who falsely accuse him of being a Muslim or stupidly think he wont leave office in 16 and think he will turn us into a communist state.

People believe in all sorts of bullshit, like big foot, crop circles, UFOs and JFK is no different. I have no doubt if Reagan had died that would have turned into a bullshit conspiracy too.

As far as the Titanic and what we know now, that is not an example of the the witnesses being right or the science of the time being right, the science still adapted to changing data. Just like we once thought our universe was much smaller than it really was.

The conclusions about the Titanic were the best the investigators had at the time, but when the new data came in they reverse engineered the data based on the laws of physics and had much better technology to simulate the accident based on the building codes. Much like you don't see the killer in a murder, but can find them through what is left behind.

Oswald acted alone and this plane did not magically evaporate.
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#32
RE: MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
(March 8, 2015 at 7:36 am)Brian37 Wrote: Drop it Parker, this conspiracy has been debunked over and over.

Maybe to your satisfaction. I'm not so certain, at all. I've read the countervailing views, as well. I find them unconvincing.

Quote:The stupidest lie sold right after is that the front seat and back seats were the same height. THEY WERE NOT, the back seats were higher which would put Kennedy in line with one bullet which would have as the commission said, killed Kennedy and injured the front seat passenger.

I'm unsure why you're mentioning this in reply to me, as I didn't make any such allegation. I, and most skeptics, know that Connolly was sitting in a so-called jump-seat.

Quote:This is the same mass delusion is what causes bad claims to spread like weeds. The JFK conspiracies spread like all others.

The fact is that rulers have historically been killed by conspiracies; they do sometimes happen.

Quote:Assuming, mass hysteria, gap filling, gullibility, fear, and unscientific reporting, or fitting bad data to fish for a conclusion you desire., also caused this bullshit in this link below.

I've done a bit of studying on this, from both sides of the argument, and have worked to avoid those pitfalls. If you can point out where I'm practicing any of those weaknesses, do let me know.



Quote:It is also why, back when I was a kid like today, media still loves preying off the gullibility of society selling crap like Bigfoot. You simply have fallen for a different conspiracy.

... or so you say. You have dismissed my point without rebutting anything I've written. This is an ad homeneim argument and unworthy of any further consideration.

(March 8, 2015 at 7:58 am)Gawdzilla Wrote: Yep, dumbasses.

I notice you did answer anything I wrote in my post.

If your best argument is the quote above, then color me unconvinced.

You seemed like a much better poster at TAF. Pity you've gone downhill like this.

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#33
RE: MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
(March 8, 2015 at 9:31 am)Gawdzilla Wrote: First, that shows that eyewitlesses are untrustworthy.

Second, there was no conspiracy to cover up the breaking up.
Actually no, it shows them that they should have considered the testimony more seriously in the first place. Plenty of people who didn't see it split probably missed the moment that it happened, and in the dark didn't realise what they were seeing. The issue is that they thought that knew better than to need to rely on witness accounts.

I didn't say there was a "conspiracy" as such, but they still wanted to be right in the face of contradictory evidence. They made it accepted fact that the Titanic sunk in one piece. They could have said it was a debatable fact, but no, they made it accepted fact that it went down in one complete piece.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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#34
RE: MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
(March 8, 2015 at 8:02 am)Brian37 Wrote: Just like 9/11 you do not do something like that and get away with it. In both cases you have a diverse government of both parties, diverse law enforcement with members of both parties, vetted secret service whom vote for both parties, multiple law enforcement agencies. Getting away with a group crime of any kind is impossible the more people involved.

Argument from incredulity.

Quote:Buying JFK crap is as bad as claiming Bush or Jews planted explosives in the towers. Oswald was a disturbed individual and the only thing the government did wrong was not have good security in place and allowed Oswald to fall through the cracks, the same way we knew Bin Ladin was a threat under both Clinton and Bush. There was no conspiracy, there were simply bad conditions. If you want to believe something badly enough you will. No different a conspiracy than what leads humans to believe gods exist.

Reiterating your point is not supporting it.

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#35
RE: MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
(March 8, 2015 at 8:02 am)Brian37 Wrote: Buying JFK crap is as bad as claiming Bush or Jews planted explosives in the towers. Oswald was a disturbed individual and the only thing the government did wrong was not have good security in place and allowed Oswald to fall through the cracks, the same way we knew Bin Ladin was a threat under both Clinton and Bush. There was no conspiracy, there were simply bad conditions. If you want to believe something badly enough you will. No different a conspiracy than what leads humans to believe gods exist.

No, it's not the same.

One thing is possible, since you only need a hand full of guys to pull a hit. The other thing is totally impossible, since thousands of people and organisations had to be involved to pull something of that magnitude.

As for me, I'm open to any serious discussion about the Kennedy hit. And by serious I don't mean what conspiracy nuts forked out in the last 50 years, such as Jim Garrison, who showed his cabalistic acrobatics with phone numbers, thereby becoming a laughing stock. I'm rather interested in what historians and shooting experts make of the Zabruda footage. Yeah, probably Oswald acted alone, but that doesn't mean it weren't interesting what our technology can make of the grainy pictures of 1963 and the conclusions being drawn. So far I'm going with Oswald, since there is no real evidence pointing in a different direction. But if at some point new evidence came up, I wouldn't be surprised. Which is certainly not the case with 9/11.

As I said before, size matters very much.
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#36
RE: MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
Yes it is. Again, people want to believe there were other people because a sucker punch like that being caught with your security down is embarrassing. It is the same rush to judgment gap filling that causes people come up with all sorts of conspiracy crap. The mundane is not as sexy. Oswald was a disturbed man, his civilian bosses said so, his family said so, the U.S. military said so and the Soviets rebuffed him as well.

Again, if Reagan had died his supporters would have concocted the same types of things, claiming liberal rivals, mafia, foreign governments. Reagan had enemies too. Everyone accepts Hinkley acted lone.

There was a diverse congress investigating JFK. There was a diverse CIA and FBI and Secret Service at the time. Just like there was a diverse government who found the 19 hijackers and traced the crime back to Bin Laden. To swallow any conspiracy crap after the DIVERSE Warren commission and DIVERSE investigators local and national, is to claim thousands of individuals were in on the cover up. BULL SHIT, and just as bad as claiming Jews or Bush planted explosives in the towers. If there had been someone helping Oswald the government would NOT have covered that up.
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#37
RE: MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
(March 8, 2015 at 3:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Oswald was a disturbed man, his civilian bosses said so, his family said so, the U.S. military said so and the Soviets rebuffed him as well.

I certainly agree that Oswald was cracked in the head.

(March 8, 2015 at 3:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: There was a diverse congress investigating JFK. There was a diverse CIA and FBI and Secret Service at the time.

The fact is, two different government panels arrived at two different conclusions about JFK's murder. Citing only one of them as authoritative doesn't seem to make much sense, especially considering some of the practices concerning evidence and questioning the WC had in place.

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#38
RE: MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
(March 8, 2015 at 4:17 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:
(March 8, 2015 at 3:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Oswald was a disturbed man, his civilian bosses said so, his family said so, the U.S. military said so and the Soviets rebuffed him as well.

I certainly agree that Oswald was cracked in the head.

(March 8, 2015 at 3:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: There was a diverse congress investigating JFK. There was a diverse CIA and FBI and Secret Service at the time.

The fact is, two different government panels arrived at two different conclusions about JFK's murder. Citing only one of them as authoritative doesn't seem to make much sense, especially considering some of the practices concerning evidence and questioning the WC had in place.

Occham's razor. You are stupidly insisting the government would not want people to know the truth. 50 years have passed, there is no need this far after the fact to hold anything back. Otherwise maybe someone paid Hinkley to whack Reagan and the government covered it up.
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#39
RE: MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
(March 8, 2015 at 4:48 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(March 8, 2015 at 4:17 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I certainly agree that Oswald was cracked in the head.


The fact is, two different government panels arrived at two different conclusions about JFK's murder. Citing only one of them as authoritative doesn't seem to make much sense, especially considering some of the practices concerning evidence and questioning the WC had in place.

Occham's razor. You are stupidly insisting the government would not want people to know the truth.

No, I am not. I do not "know" who killed JFK. I have my own opinions, and that is all they are, and as such I'm not trying to push them on you or anyone else; I'm merely trying to explain my skepticism.

You, on the other hand, are making assumptions about my mindset, when you have no basis for so doing. I've not once appealed to information that isn't public, and I've not once insinuated that the government is an active participant in a cover-up. I've only stated that I believe the assassination involved more than LHO.

By the way, Occam's Razor is a well-advised principle to getting at the truth of a matter, but it is not a rule of logic. I accept its premise as valid and very useful, but at the same time understand that it is sometimes violated by events or phenomena.

(March 8, 2015 at 3:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: 50 years have passed, there is no need this far after the fact to hold anything back. Otherwise maybe someone paid Hinkley to whack Reagan and the government covered it up.

Keep making spurious comparisons. You're really not helping your point, but hey, that's not my problem. I don't know what the government has locked away, and I'm not speculating about it; I'm limiting my points here to what is on record.

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#40
RE: MH370 did NOT disappear. OP/ED
The point is, one conspiracy is possible - as in can be done without involving half of the country. The other one is totally impossible. So it's apples and oranges to compare them.
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