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General argument for Islam.
#11
RE: General argument for Islam.
(March 26, 2015 at 7:45 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(March 26, 2015 at 7:31 pm)Alex K Wrote: Good question, but if God exists, which I highly doubt, he indeed did a good job depriving us of a clearly written book. I mean, talk about
maybe issuing it not just in some backwaters behind the levante and at least 100000 years too late, but actually, you know, such that the majority of people actually get to see it?
Prophets could have been sent with revelation and although it would not be written down for everyone to see, there would be oral reminders and wisdom, which was the way they "read" books in the past.
l - a - m - e

God could have projected it into the sky in mile high letters 24/7 if it was so important.
Quote:
Quote:No, we don't. What does that have to do with anything?

For wanting to know wisdom, why would we feel no need of God giving us that wisdom.
I'd take God's wisdom allright. I just see no evidence that some old books do contain it - that's really the crucial part.
Quote:
Quote:There are a lot of psychopaths in leadership positions, did you know that?

And good leaders ought to lead people away from their path, and the best of humanity are the most fit to lead humanity and other leaders.
Plato would be proud of you. Unfortunately, that's not how it played out.
Quote:
Quote:Deism totally makes sense. Why does deism not make sense to you?

It makes only sense if you don't believe in the greatness of God, and his love, grace, mercy, and compassion.
Well yeah, ok.
Quote: If you believe he is bountiful and loving, you will believe he isn't trying us by evil just to abandon us and not help us, and not help us achieve honorable states, rally and unite upon the best of humans and help us work to establish justice and help us see wisdom and his light from guidance from him.
That's quite some wishful thinking you've got going there. Your argument seems to be that you want a nice and helpful god and therefore deism is not an option.
Quote:Moreover, the best of his servants in Deism are basically no where to be found. They didn't lead humanity,
Erm. Ok, where do I start. So... of course you can think of the US of A whatever you want, and it's got its impressive share of flaws, but it damn well led major parts of the world into fucking democracy, including being an

inspiration to the
french revolution. And most of the crucial guys in designing it were Deists. I think that counts, and you don't know what you are talking about.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#12
RE: General argument for Islam.
(March 26, 2015 at 7:54 pm)Alex K Wrote: l - a - m - e

God could have projected it into the sky in mile high letters 24/7 if it was so important.

But there is beauty in the system as it is, without these bizarre things Atheists always request.

Quote:I'd take God's wisdom allright. I just see no evidence that some old books do contain it - that's really the crucial part.

So your argument becomes specific and goes straight to the conclusion. If God exists, then you do have a need for his wisdom and would take it. So it only makes sense to assume no religion is true if God doesn't exist.

Quote:Plato would be proud of you. Unfortunately, that's not how it played out.

Then we have a very low estimation of the best humans, and the best humans are not that high and exalted. But if we know through morality and praise, there would exist some humans that are of exalted nature, it makes sense to assume that this did happen.


Quote:That's quite some wishful thinking you've got going there. Your argument seems to be that you want a nice and helpful god and therefore deism is not an option.

A non-helping God is not much of a god at all.


Quote:Erm. Ok, where do I start. So... of course you can think of the US of A whatever you want, and it's got its impressive share of flaws, but it damn well led major parts of the world into fucking democracy, including being an inspiration to the french revolution. And most of the crucial guys in designing it were Deists. I think that counts, and you don't know what you are talking about.

That's not much guidance, people are capable of showing some guidance but it takes a true close one to God to know exalted wisdom and share it, and that's only for way later that Deists were on the scene. I'm talking about through out history, through out time.

And I'm talking about thorough guidance, thorough wisdom. The high wisdom simply doesn't exist in Deism. No one one knows it. We're all stuck in the cave with no access to it.
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#13
RE: General argument for Islam.
(March 26, 2015 at 8:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: That's not much guidance,
It's good enough for me. I don't want more guidance, I'll take it from here, thank you.
Quote: people are capable of showing some guidance but it takes a true close one to God to know exalted wisdom and share it, and that's only for way later that Deists were on the scene. I'm talking about through out history, through out time.
Any evidence for the existence of this exalted wisdom and that it actually is good for anything?
Quote:
And I'm talking about thorough guidance, thorough wisdom.
and what is that and why would I want it?
Quote:The high wisdom simply doesn't exist in Deism. No one one knows it. We're all stuck in the cave with no access to it.

You've made it up. That high wisdom you seek. It's an illusion.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#14
RE: General argument for Islam.
Mystic, I skimmed thru your first post and a repeated concept seemed to be the goodness of people. My God states there is none who are upright, ALL have missed the mark and all are in need of repentance and redemption.
Why is the Koran diametrically opposed to what is stated in the bible?
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#15
RE: General argument for Islam.
[Image: 400_F_31136667_nws0weurF2PrQXgUr89nqOTPNueyvKuY.jpg]
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#16
RE: General argument for Islam.
(March 26, 2015 at 8:36 pm)Alex K Wrote: [Image: 400_F_31136667_nws0weurF2PrQXgUr89nqOTPNueyvKuY.jpg]

Yeah, I was thinking about saying something, but this'll be fun.
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#17
RE: General argument for Islam.


Ok thank you for the discussion. Ultimate High Wisdom is God himself, so believing in exalted wisdom, various ranks of it, and high stages of it, takes faith in God.

Deism while acknowledges the Creator, negates the all beautiful names of God.

As for proof of God and his beautiful Names, it lies primarily in the signs in the soul and the signs in the spiritual horizons.

Peace be upon you Alex K. Thanks again for the discussion.
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#18
RE: General argument for Islam.
(March 26, 2015 at 8:47 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: As for proof of God and his beautiful Names, it lies primarily in the signs in the soul and the signs in the spiritual horizons.
I can't really make sense of that. What are the signs in the soul and the spiritual horizons and how do they prove anything?
Quote:Peace be upon you Alex K. Thanks again for the discussion.

Well, peace be upon you, too! I'm going to bed Tongue I'll read on tomorrow.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

Reply
#19
RE: General argument for Islam.
(March 26, 2015 at 8:30 pm)professor Wrote: Mystic, I skimmed thru your first post and a repeated concept seemed to be the goodness of people. My God states there is none who are upright, ALL have missed the mark and all are in need of repentance and redemption.
Why is the Koran diametrically opposed to what is stated in the bible?

A sin is only blameworthy if it's avoidable. It's avoidable only if it's possible not to commit it.
Therefore it's possible not to commit sins.

Besides sinless humans, are people who sinned but repented and raced in good deeds. These are righteous too.

The concept that no one is good is not inherent in humanity. We know many people are good.

I'm talking about the best of the good, those who race ahead of all in good deeds, and were never unjust. It's these people that God makes Guides.

God is such a being that there is bound to be lovers of his that are sincerely attached to him and by that attachment there will be no evil upon them.

Besides that God can create infinite souls and test them in a different realm before creating them in a form, and see how sincerely attached they are to him. This makes it bound to be souls that will be of utmost possible sincerity to him.

He can possibly be creating infinite universes with sentient life, and in each planet with sentient life, he appoints the most utmost sincere servants and sincere lovers to God that would never sin.
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#20
RE: General argument for Islam.
I understand your concepts.
Why is the Koran totally different than the Bible which preceded it by up to thousands of years?
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