Worried there might be an afterlife

[Razzle]

Hi, I'm new. I don't feel up to giving myself a proper introduction, for reasons that will become clear. I'm just hoping to settle a doubt in my mind and hope you'll be able to help. I've tried posting this elsewhere online, just trying to get as many thoughts and as much information as I can.

I don't "believe" as such in an afterlife but I am worried by doubts there might be one. Not the afterlife of any particular religion, which I see no good evidence for, but something like becoming a ghost or reincarnation. I have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (currently not one of the subtypes most people are familiar with) and it torments me. My main comfort has been knowing it won't last forever, one day I'll die. I have absolutely no fear of non-existence and find it strange that most people are afraid of the idea. When I thought I was dying a few weeks ago (panic attack I mistook for a heart attack) I wasn't scared of dying, I just thought - well I've been wishing that something would kill me so that I don't have to hurt my family by killing myself, and I'm getting my wish. I was hoping it wouldn't hurt too much and concerned for my family (I have no children or dependents but the relatives I do have would be devastated emotionally) but death itself I didn't care about.

Recently I've been thinking - what if this torment DOES go on forever? I know whole groups of people who are convinced they work in or live in haunted buildings, people I trust and don't gain anything from lying. Some of the stories I've heard about ghosts make me question - if the pattern of conscious activity called the mind, after being created by the brain, sometimes, somehow continues to exist after the thing that set in motion is no more, presumably it would be pretty much as it was when the brain died. In life I get these obsessive fears, and compulsions, so why would it be any different after death? The difference is I won't have any medication to help dampen it down. And anecdotally it seems the people who apparently hang around after death are those who had miserable deaths or have unfinished business, some kind of conflict that was never resolved. OCD is basically caused by the brain inappropriately generating an irrational feeling of unfinished business, of a major threat that must be dealt with, even after the threat has been dealt with and the intellectual part of the brain knows this. Once you've got an obsession, it just takes weeks, months or years for it to stop FEELING like it still needs to be addressed. Then you get another obsession about something else. So if anyone's going to become a ghost, it would be someone like me. And if reincarnation is real - what if I come back and suffer even more?

Can anyone help reassure me that when you're dead you STAY dead, lights out, good night Irene?

Thanks in advance,

Raz

[Norman Humann]

Hello, Razzle. Welcome to the forums. I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. I know how it is to be irrationally afraid of something. It isn't easy to overcome, but definitely not impossible.

As for the comforting part, well... did you know that children become self-aware only at the age of two? Consciousness is a product of a working brain. Once the brain generating it is damaged or dead, the consciousness ends. Think about people who have amnesia. Memories are what makes us who we are, among other things. After we lose them, we become someone else. Or take lobotomy, for example.

There is no reason to believe that any part of you will survive in some disembodied form after your brain is dead. It's only natural to wonder what happens after death, but really, death means the end of life. That's why the concept of life after death is an oxymoron. Whether you have unfinished business when you die doesn't really change the fact that you die.

There's really no need to fear afterlife. All the people who claim to have come back from the dead haven't actually been dead, as evidenced by the fact that they're talking about it.

I don't know if this helps, but I hope it does. Hang in there.

[robvalue]

Hello, welcome to the forum

I'm very sorry to hear of your situation. I can sympathise, for a long time I've been wishing for something to take me out so that I can leave is existence without it being my fault; like you, I wouldn't do it myself because of how it would hurt those around me.

I've spent a lot of time looking into all sorts of paranormal studies, and I can tell you that there has never, ever been a single shred of evidence for any kind of life after death. No ghosts, no spirits, no souls, nothing.

I can't offer absolute certainly of course, no one can. But I can tell you that after all the ghost reports, paranormal activity etc. not once has any of these claims been substantiated. Ever. There is even a guy called James Randi, who offers a massive cash price (a million bucks or something) to the first person who can properly demonstrate anything supernatural. No one has yet claimed the prize.

What we do know however, is how easily the human mind can be fooled. We are surrounded by spooky ideas, and the brain is very suggestive. It doesn't take much for people to fill in the gaps and jump to conclusions. There will almost certainly be a natural explanation for every report.

The thing is, even if they thought they heard or saw something, it is impossible that they can accurately know it is a ghost. We have no experience of such thing. How can they possibly say that's what it was? It's jumping straight to an unsupported conclusion based on the kind of things swirling in our subconscious. There's all kinds of explanations as to how the brain can think it has experienced things it hadn't, and even memories can be altered after the fact. People can be as convinced as they like, but it will always be overwhelmingly more likely that they are mistaken than they happened to have the first real encounter ever.

So that's the best I can do I am as sure as it is possible to be that there's no ghosts, afterlife, nothing like that. And most scientifically minded people would agree with me, I can confidently say. There has never been any evidence of any sort of conciousness without a live, working brain to produce it.

[Faith No More]

Scientific studies in neurology, especially the study of brain injuries, have shown that everything that makes up the conscious "you" is entirely dependent upon physical brain structure. People go through entire personality changes and cease to be the same person after severe brain injuries, most notably Phineas Gage. Without these brain structures, there is no "you" to exist, so even if something could exist beyond death, it would devoid of everything that creates your personality, perceptions, decision making ability and so on.

Neurology has shown that who we are is all wrapped up nicely inside our skulls, and once that shuts down, the things that make you "you" no longer function. It's just not possible for your psyche to exist after death.

[Bad Wolf]

Well, this is going to be a bit difficult. We can't prove that there isn't an afterlife of some sort. No one has died and come back to tell us. Well, some probably claim to have done, but how exactly are we supposed to tell if they aren't lying or deluded? It depends on whether you are convinced by the stories of Near death experiences and reincarnation. I'm not, therefore I don't believe an afterlife exists.

And about ghosts. The level of trust you have with your friends and their motives to lie are irrelevant. They could simply be mistaken about the ghosts. They may really believe they've seen ghosts but they could just be wrong, just like UFO abductions. Have they ever presented any information? Like photographs or videos?

About the mind carrying on after death. All the evidence points to the idea that the mind is an eventuality of our brain. Without our brain, the mind doesn't exist. And we know from illnesses like Alzheimer's, that the mind becomes damaged along with the brain. The evidence suggests that the mind cannot exist or continue without a brain.

[robvalue]

It's not hard to see where ideas and hopes about the afterlife come from; we know we're going to die and most people can't stand to think about it. So they invent some way in which they don't have to worry, because there's more.

So that's a far simpler explanation for where all the shit about it comes from than it actually being real, especially as there is no evidence ever.

Like you, I don't want any more after this! But I'm not worried about it, because I'm as sure I can be that when I'm gone, I'm done for good.

[JuliaL]

I hope you can put your fears behind you.

Emotions are not governed by reason, but reason can be a useful tool to limit their effects.

You are not afraid of the conditions you experienced before you were born?
There is every reason to believe that after death, the conscious person that is you reverts to the state it was in before birth.
So there should be no fear of that state either.

[Razzle]

Thanks everyone. I'll reply to you individually soon, when I have the energy and focus. My meds make me very sleepy in the evening.

[robvalue]

No problem, take your time

Take care of yourself.

[Alex K]

Hey

It's pretty obvious that consciousness is a product of your brain, and your ocd is a product of brain chemistry and wiring. Even if there were an afterlife, which is a silly idea, why would the minutiae of your brain chemistry play a role there?
That being said, please don't kill yourself. There have got to be more effective therapies, and if not now maybe in a few years time.