Atheism Ireland denounces hateful bigot PZ Myers

[Dystopia]

Where did you get the info that jews have a lot of power? Outside of their country - Israel




I don't understand the point of the video - Hitchens basically says that men need to be funnier to get laid when pretty much comedians do jokes for a million of reasons and they don't necessarily get laid after every show and there's also a million of reasons to get laid b sides finding them funny not to mention that in real life normal cases humour and sense of humour is something that varies between people and in my experience it's reciprocal - Hitchens' belief is based on the view that all men want sex all the time with anyone and that we would do anything to get laid - But he didn't provide any actual proof

[TheMessiah]

Where did you get the info that jews have a lot of power? Outside of their country - Israel

I don't understand the point of the video - Hitchens basically says that men need to be funnier to get laid when pretty much comedians do jokes for a million of reasons and they don't necessarily get laid after every show and there's also a million of reasons to get laid b sides finding them funny not to mention that in real life normal cases humour and sense of humour is something that varies between people and in my experience it's reciprocal - Hitchens' belief is based on the view that all men want sex all the time with anyone and that we would do anything to get laid - But he didn't provide any actual proof

Jews in America are extremely powerful, despite being a minority. It's been quite well known and touted as a joke for some time, with Marlon Brando essentially saying Hollywood is run by Jews in his auto-biography. There is an extremely powerful Jewish influence in America. Famous ones include Ben Bernake, the chairman of the US Federal Reserve, Rahm Emanuel, White House Chief of Staff, Sergey Brin, founder of Google, etc.

The argument Hitchens put forward was that men more often than not, on average have to be funnier than women. His point wasn't that all men wanted to get laid, his point was that men who want to get laid often need to be funny in some way. That was his position on culture in first world countries; hence why he points out that the responses to his essay didn't address that key part. His head-line ''Why women still aren't funny'' was just a clickbait title.

[Cephus]

What I am saying is that all figures end up saying very dumb things - PZ Myers never interested me but figures make mistakes - Like I pointed out earlier Harris defended racially profiling brown skinned people because of Muslim terrorists - That seems a little like racial prejudice to me and it's not any better than hating Christians.

That's not prejudiced, that's reality.  Whether we like it or not, the majority of modern terrorists happen to be brown skinned people from the Middle East who cling to the Muslim faith. It only makes sense to take a closer look at such people, the same way you'd look more closely at men than women if you're seeking a serial killer.  Most serial killers are men.  So long as these facts remain true, we need to focus our limited resources to looking at more likely suspects than less likely suspects.  It is truly idiotic to spend as much time looking at an 80-year old white grandmother from Des Moines as a terrorist suspect, just in the name of political correctness.  That's exactly what Harris has said (the few times I've paid attention).  It's nothing personal, it's entirely rational though.

By the same token, if we're trying to solve an abortion clinic bombing, the most rational place to start is looking at fundamentalist Christian men.  That's not racist, that's not sexist, that's not anti-religion, that's identifying the demographic which has been most often associated with the crime and giving them some well-deserved extra scrutiny.

---

Dawkins pedophilia comments need context. His argument was that 'mild' pedophilia, of the 1950s was actually common. However, his argument is that he struggles to condemn people of that era who would have behaved in that way in contrast to someone of modern times. This is what he said:

I am very conscious that you can’t condemn people of an earlier era by the standards of ours. Just as we don’t look back at the 18th and 19th centuries and condemn people for racism in the same way as we would condemn a modern person for racism, I look back a few decades to my childhood and see things like caning, like mild pedophilia, and can’t find it in me to condemn it by the same standards as I or anyone would today,”

The problem is, Dawkins is entirely right about that, you simply cannot declare modern thinking to be magically true across all times and in all places, there are far too many modern atheists who do exactly that.  They think that our modern view of morality is perfect and everyone else's has always been wrong.  They ignore the simple fact that people who had slaves thought that owning slaves was correct and people in the past had simply done things wrong.  In another 100 years, our ancestors are going to look back and be shocked at how wrong we have it, from their perspective.  This idea of "I'm right and everyone else is wrong because they don't agree with me" is really very shallow.

I also find that criticism of Dawkins is often simply ripped out of context.  Many of the people who do it are just mad at him because he's a rich white man.  They're not secretive about it either, they come right out and say it.  The same people who accuse Dawkins and others of being sexist and racist are doing it out of sexism and racism.  It's really quite bizarre.

[Alex K]

Most criticism I see of anyone is ripped out of context. I've seen many accusations against PZM or Rebecca Watson (I don't want to lump them together) that did not match with what I had read. Just the other day saw an interview with Alain de Botton where he says things about Dawkins that I, having read and seen almost everything RD has produced, perceive as bald faced lies. Then again, RD had said things about others that are crass mischaracterizations. The upshot can only be, trust no one in such kerfuffles.

[Dystopia]

That's not prejudiced, that's reality.  Whether we like it or not, the majority of modern terrorists happen to be brown skinned people from the Middle East who cling to the Muslim faith. It only makes sense to take a closer look at such people, the same way you'd look more closely at men than women if you're seeking a serial killer.  Most serial killers are men.  So long as these facts remain true, we need to focus our limited resources to looking at more likely suspects than less likely suspects.  It is truly idiotic to spend as much time looking at an 80-year old white grandmother from Des Moines as a terrorist suspect, just in the name of political correctness.  That's exactly what Harris has said (the few times I've paid attention).  It's nothing personal, it's entirely rational though.

By the same token, if we're trying to solve an abortion clinic bombing, the most rational place to start is looking at fundamentalist Christian men.  That's not racist, that's not sexist, that's not anti-religion, that's identifying the demographic which has been most often associated with the crime and giving them some well-deserved extra scrutiny.

I do see your point, but:
- Muslims are not an entire race and you can find (1) Black Muslims from African countries in big big numbers, those are really not "brown" (2) White Muslims who converted to Islam (3) Mixed race people who you can't identify clearly (4) Brown people are a huge group - For example someone from India is different from a Saudi

The problem with this is that it allows us to hurt non Muslims - Sikhs have been hurt because they look like Muslims but aren't at all - I'm not saying you should inspect 80 year old grandmothers and so on but do you believe terrorists are dumb enough to show up wearing a silly hat and a giant beard? How do you identify a brown skin? I'm from southern Europe, I look darker than most whites, am I considered brown?

Let me ask you a question - If you believe that, do you think we should arrest blacks more often than whites if it's proven that blacks commit more crimes? Should we suspect blacks more automatically?

The problem is, Dawkins is entirely right about that, you simply cannot declare modern thinking to be magically true across all times and in all places, there are far too many modern atheists who do exactly that.  They think that our modern view of morality is perfect and everyone else's has always been wrong.  They ignore the simple fact that people who had slaves thought that owning slaves was correct and people in the past had simply done things wrong.  In another 100 years, our ancestors are going to look back and be shocked at how wrong we have it, from their perspective.  This idea of "I'm right and everyone else is wrong because they don't agree with me" is really very shallow.

I also find that criticism of Dawkins is often simply ripped out of context.  Many of the people who do it are just mad at him because he's a rich white man.  They're not secretive about it either, they come right out and say it.  The same people who accuse Dawkins and others of being sexist and racist are doing it out of sexism and racism.  It's really quite bizarre.

I partially agree but let me ask this - What is mild paedophilia? Because I was thinking about legal differences between for example paedophilia using a knife and without the knife etc - His comment about rape (date rape and knife rape or something like that) was idiotic because you can't quantify how much serious rape is for someone - Marital rape for example is in theory less serious than rape at gunpoint but for the person getting raped it can be terrible to be hurt by someone you have loved your entire life

My point here is that all leaders say dumb things and for that I don't worship them - And yes that includes Dawkins and other famous atheists - For example I think his statement on the dear muslima and all that shit is stupid because it boils down to "there are larger problems elsewhere therefore we can't solve ours - So goodbye western poverty"

Jews in America are extremely powerful, despite being a minority. It's been quite well known and touted as a joke for some time, with Marlon Brando essentially saying Hollywood is run by Jews in his auto-biography. There is an extremely powerful Jewish influence in America. Famous ones include Ben Bernake, the chairman of the US Federal Reserve, Rahm Emanuel, White House Chief of Staff, Sergey Brin, founder of Google, etc.

Yes because Marlon Brando is someone we should totally take seriously as the expert on geo-politics, that was his job after all..... I hope you're not going to say that "Jews rule the world" or something like that

First define me "Jew" - Is it culture, ethnicity, religion, or a mix between some or all of those? THen prove it

The argument Hitchens put forward was that men more often than not, on average have to be funnier than women. His point wasn't that all men wanted to get laid, his point was that men who want to get laid often need to be funny in some way. That was his position on culture in first world countries; hence why he points out that the responses to his essay didn't address that key part. His head-line ''Why women still aren't funny'' was just a clickbait title.

Have to be does not mean "are" - His view pretty much ignores everything else about getting laid - It also assumes it's men who want to bang women when many times nowadays it's reciprocal because women want to have sex as well

[TheMessiah]

Most criticism I see of anyone is ripped out of context. I've seen many accusations against PZM or Rebecca Watson (I don't want to lump them together) that did not match with what I had read. Just the other day saw an interview with Alain de Botton where he says things about Dawkins that I, having read and seen almost everything RD has produced, perceive as bald faced lies. Then again, RD had said things about others that are crass mischaracterizations. The upshot can only be, trust no one in such kerfuffles.

PZM is on record for spewing hate. As I linked in the OP. I don't know about Rebecca Watson, a lot of people found her annoying but she's nowhere near as hateful as PZ Myers.

Also there has been serious libel on Dawkins. The Atheism plus block bot (one of the few remains of that movement) essentially put Dawkins on the block bot, libelling him as a racist rape apologist. Dawkins got mad over it because it was flat out libel. This happened about 3 weeks ago.

[Dystopia]

I don't think he is a rape apologist but I believe some of his twitter remarks on rape were unnecessary, unfounded and lacking in criminologic content - Criminology is not his speciality so he should try to not wonder what rape is better or worse

[TheMessiah]

Yes because Marlon Brando is someone we should totally take seriously as the expert on geo-politics, that was his job after all..... I hope you're not going to say that "Jews rule the world" or something like that

Why are you talking about geopolitics? I said nothing about geopolitical issues. I said that Marlon Brando, and also a number of other Hollywood legends have said that Jews in America have influence over Hollywood. I never claimed ''Jews rule the world'' --- just that they have a lot of media influence. This is most certainly true.

Your original point was that hatred against Christians is okay/doesn't mean anything because they are privileged. Jews in America are rich; and the data certainly backs it up.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,...03,00.html

Jews make up 2% of the US population, a tiny percentage - yet make up 25% of 400 wealthiest Americans. That is an incredible statistic, and certainly illustrates that Jews, as a group of people are extremely powerful. There was also a British documentary recently called Things we don't say about race that are actually true - and it also produced a similar statistic in the UK, many of Britain's elite/wealthy are Jews, despite not making up much of the population.

This comes back to my original point, that Jews are 'privileged' (if you'd call it that) - discrimination and hatred is NOT okay. It does not matter if you're a Jew, Christian or Muslim.

From what I can tell, Jew refers to a follower of the religion.

Have to be does not mean "are" - His view pretty much ignores everything else about getting laid - It also assumes it's men who want to bang women when many times nowadays it's reciprocal because women want to have sex as well

No it doesn't. He put a general viewpoint out, that being funny, especially while male is often a fundamental factor into getting laid. Clearly, there are other factors, but what he put out was a general point. 

I don't know why you think Hitchens was making a commentary on the overall culture of sexual relations, he simply commented on one aspect. Many women do want to have sex with men --- but many men will still try to be funny to further their chances of getting laid. They may also try looking better, etc. What Hitch said was a general point, not a manifesto on how to get laid.

[Alex K]

3 weeks ago! I'm not that up to date bc I don't follow these people.

---

I don't think he is a rape apologist but I believe some of his twitter remarks on rape were unnecessary, unfounded and lacking in criminologic content - Criminology is not his speciality so he should try to not wonder what rape is better or worse

And he doubled down after criticism, making him look a bit provocative and hurtful for its own sake. Meh, whatever...

[Dystopia]

Why are you talking about geopolitics? I said nothing about geopolitical issues. I said that Marlon Brando, and also a number of other Hollywood legends have said that Jews in America have influence over Hollywood. I never claimed ''Jews rule the world'' --- just that they have a lot of media influence. This is most certainly true.

Actually white men have

Your original point was that hatred against Christians is okay/doesn't mean anything because they are privileged. Jews in America are rich; and the data certainly backs it up.

My point is that in western countries there is no persecution against Christians and Christians are not the most discriminated minority like some like to claim - It's a lot harder to be Muslim because everyone thinks you're a terrorist or even Jewish because many people think you're greedy and rule the world

Jews make up 2% of the US population, a tiny percentage - yet make up 25% of 400 wealthiest Americans. That is an incredible statistic, and certainly illustrates that Jews, as a group of people are extremely powerful. There was also a British documentary recently called Things we don't say about race that are actually true - and it also produced a similar statistic in the UK, many of Britain's elite/wealthy are Jews, despite not making up much of the population.

What's the criteria for Jewish? Religion is useless because those are people who happen to have the same religion - I guess we can then say that Christians have a lot of influence over the media, far more than Jews - And yes Jews are successful and do make money (and have high IQ's) because ashkenazi Jews (ethnic group) practised eugenics among other things and have a culture that values knowledge hardwork etc 

This comes back to my original point, that Jews are 'privileged' (if you'd call it that) - discrimination and hatred is NOT okay. It does not matter if you're a Jew, Christian or Muslim.

For Jews to be privileged there would not be conspiracy theories about them ruling the world or people thinking that Israel shouldn't exist - For Jews to be privileged you would have to forget the dark side of the internet where you can find over 10000 sites promoting Jew hatred.

No it doesn't. He put a general viewpoint out, that being funny, especially while male is often a fundamental factor into getting laid. Clearly, there are other factors, but what he put out was a general point.

I never understood this - if your only goal is to get laid why not pay a hooker? You can find really cheap ones and they cost less than buying one or two drinks