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RE: Long term Nihilists
April 13, 2015 at 9:09 am
I suppose if you only cry because the universe doesn't have an inherent meaning, yes you could come to that conclusion. I'm all out of fucks about what the universe cares or doesn't care about though - isn't that the point of atheism? You don't believe there's a higher power? The people who fall into nihilism I think are the ones who get sad that there isn't. Why? I'm the product of billions of years of star-guts and evolution coalescing into a happily conscious creature. If there isn't a meaning set out for me, doesn't that mean I can decide for my damn self what matters, and by extension, the human race? All things come to dust in the long term, but why the inherent negativity about it instead of enjoying the ride while it lasts?
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RE: Long term Nihilists
April 13, 2015 at 9:58 am
If we're defining nihilist as seeing no objective meaning, then I am one of those for short term and long term. What I don't believe, however, is that seeing no objective meaning precludes me from finding meaning myself. I can still value myself and my experiences, which I also extend to others, without it having meaning that last forever. The idea that meaning has to last forever otherwise it holds no true value is just silliness.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Long term Nihilists
April 13, 2015 at 10:52 pm
(This post was last modified: April 13, 2015 at 10:53 pm by Mystic.)
When I was an Atheist for that horrible week I was, it seemed to me that value and praise and the worth of humans developed in us along with magical thinking. Our very concept of ourselves, by praising each other, and giving worth, seemed to developed through evolution...but what makes it true? It seemed to me to be totally baseless, those who felt more worth survived more and flourished more, and so our concept of value to ourselves grew a long with beliefs in spirit and gods.
The other problem I found is what degree of value should I attribute to myself. How much should I care about myself. How much should I value honor and praise. It seemed totally arbitrary. Sure I can chose whatever degree I am going to value to some extent, but it really takes a belief that that I should value to that extent and that takes belief in objective value.
I took the example of the night of qadr in Islam. Before being a deist and an Atheist for that week, I was Muslim, and believe the night of qadr was worth a thousand months. Now I can't while not believing Islam value the night of qadr as worth of a 1000 months without belief.
In the same way, the degree of value comes from belief in what value we have. But that says we do have an objective value or at least we believe that. The only thing is with belief in God it seems there is a higher purpose, a higher origin, a link to spiritual light...higher beauty, higher value.
Naturally the path of God and command of God in our nature, it holds a very high value, by the nature of who it's linked to. Life seems to have far more higher purpose.
In both we can make purpose for ourselves, but one seems to have value based on link to ultimate value while the other one developed by survival of the fittest and a concept with no reality behind but our very belief in it...which doesn't seem to be a strong foundation.
Then without soul, we just simply go with our emotions. But what if our thoughts and emotions are low. What if we feel down. What if we feel things are not worth it. Is then the measure we put the true value of it?
We can assign whatever meaning and value we want to life, but I think underlying it all, we believe in a objective value to make meaning to it.
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RE: Long term Nihilists
April 13, 2015 at 10:57 pm
(April 13, 2015 at 10:52 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: When I was an Atheist for that horrible week I was,
This one part really just negated the entire rest of your post for me.
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RE: Long term Nihilists
April 13, 2015 at 11:01 pm
(This post was last modified: April 13, 2015 at 11:02 pm by Mystic.)
(April 13, 2015 at 10:57 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: (April 13, 2015 at 10:52 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: When I was an Atheist for that horrible week I was,
This one part really just negated the entire rest of your post for me.
Why? It was horrible for me. I didn't believe in morality, praise, value as a result either. I had no idea if I was a perpetual identity either or it was just a created perspective in my mind. Of course, I wasn't sure God didn't exist, so I was hopeful that all these things were true.
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RE: Long term Nihilists
April 13, 2015 at 11:15 pm
(April 13, 2015 at 11:01 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (April 13, 2015 at 10:57 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: This one part really just negated the entire rest of your post for me.
Why? It was horrible for me. I didn't believe in morality, praise, value as a result either. I had no idea if I was a perpetual identity either or it was just a created perspective in my mind. Of course, I wasn't sure God didn't exist, so I was hopeful that all these things were true.
Because it makes you sound like a Poe.
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RE: Long term Nihilists
April 13, 2015 at 11:21 pm
(April 13, 2015 at 11:15 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Because it makes you sound like a Poe.
How so?
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RE: Long term Nihilists
April 13, 2015 at 11:25 pm
Honestly? You have to ask that?
You tried being an atheist for one week. It seems to me you did not try anything at all, except at pretending to be something you already knew you could not reach because of a preconceived notion.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: Long term Nihilists
April 13, 2015 at 11:26 pm
Because you didn't believe in morality? Are you fucking kidding me?
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RE: Long term Nihilists
April 13, 2015 at 11:28 pm
(April 13, 2015 at 11:26 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Because you didn't believe in morality? Are you fucking kidding me?
See here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7699661/
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