Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 7:14 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
"Faith comes by hearing"
#21
RE: "Faith comes by hearing"
(April 28, 2015 at 12:04 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: Regular, mandatory attendance, trance stimulation, big fancy buildings, repetitive drills and condemning people who don't conform, guilt trips, basing an individual's self-worth on obedience to the gorup and following of the doctrine, asking for public donations (sometimes even going as far as reading the list of those who donated so that those who didn't are known and shunned)

Aside from trance stimulation, which I've never seen in a church, you've pretty much described a public school.
Reply
#22
RE: "Faith comes by hearing"
(April 28, 2015 at 12:07 pm)alpha male Wrote: Aside from trance stimulation, which I've never seen in a church, you've pretty much described a public school.

Never seen in a church? Never sung hymns with the congregation?

The difference being a public school is for children with the purpose of education and church is for adults with the purpose of belonging to a group

(April 28, 2015 at 12:04 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: Regular, mandatory attendance,

True, and necessary to complete an education cycle

(April 28, 2015 at 12:04 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: big fancy buildings,

I don't know what school you went to, but I'd be willing to bet most aren't fancy

(April 28, 2015 at 12:04 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: repetitive drills and condemning people who don't conform,

It's not so much condemning as discipline, which is necessary with children, because how else would you organise it?
In the catholic church, unlike in public schools, the rituals have no practical purpose

(April 28, 2015 at 12:04 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: guilt trips,

Where are the guilt trips in school? How do they compare to the guilt instilled by, say, the catholic church?

(April 28, 2015 at 12:04 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: basing an individual's self-worth on obedience to the gorup and following of the doctrine,

No doctrine in public schools, and that's not what they taught me about self-worth in there

(April 28, 2015 at 12:04 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: asking for public donations (sometimes even going as far as reading the list of those who donated so that those who didn't are known and shunned)

Never seen this in a public school
Reply
#23
RE: "Faith comes by hearing"
(April 28, 2015 at 12:14 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: Never seen in a church? Never sung hymns with the congregation?

If singing together is trance stimulation, then that's in public schools, too.

Quote:The difference being a public school is for children with the purpose of education and church is for adults with the purpose of belonging to a group

Now you're reversing your previous claim that it's about the methods rather than the content.

There's a branch of psychology devoted to understanding such "tricks." It's called educational psychology. People who employ the tactics are called teachers.
Reply
#24
RE: "Faith comes by hearing"
(April 28, 2015 at 12:23 pm)alpha male Wrote: If singing together is trance stimulation, then that's in public schools, too.

I'm not sure how it is where your from, so it may be true there, but I never had much singing together in school
It's not about just singing in unison, the music, the building and the atmosphere plays a big role in it and most importantly WHAT is being sung - like the virtue of obedience, sacrifice and faith for example
The effect is being susceptible to hypnosis

(April 28, 2015 at 12:23 pm)alpha male Wrote: Now you're reversing your previous claim that it's about the methods rather than the content.

And now you're ignoring the reasons I laid out why these methods are not used in public schools, with the exception of mandatory attendance and discipline, which are necessary for the purpose of education, which in turn is different from indoctrination (please, PLEASE don't make me explain why teaching science or history is different from instilling a belief, set of values or way of life)

(April 28, 2015 at 12:23 pm)alpha male Wrote: There's a branch of psychology devoted to understanding such "tricks." It's called educational psychology. People who employ the tactics are called teachers.

Teachers don't use trance simulation and guilt trips and don't base tell their students to base their self worth on what they are teaching
Reply
#25
Tongue 
RE: "Faith comes by hearing"
Also, there's the whole "If you don't do this right down to the letter you will BURN FOR ETERNITY". The worst most schools do is show pictures of stereotypical unemployed bums and say "this could be you!" Well they did that at my school once or twice any way. My teachers were not exactly masters of subtlety, but compared to the average preacher...

Basically churches are the worst kind of backward, stupidly strict kind of school, but turned up to 11.
Reply
#26
RE: "Faith comes by hearing"
Lol, the worst my teachers did was 'you're gonna fail and we'll have to see each other one year longer'

truth be told, it worked Tongue
Reply
#27
RE: "Faith comes by hearing"
Sheep is likely the wrong word. Clannish seems more appropriate.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
Reply
#28
RE: "Faith comes by hearing"
(April 28, 2015 at 9:18 am)Spooky Wrote:
(April 28, 2015 at 9:08 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: People who join cults (as opposed to being raised up in them when they never had a chance) are often looking for something. Seeing that someone is a brainwashing prick doesn't change that need. They'll probably continue to seek woo in some form or other.



Good point.

What would be society's best solution?

I'd vote for a combination of education and secular social groups.

I'm all for this, and I think it will be religion's downfall in the end. We'll always be fighting against woo, unfortunately.

(April 28, 2015 at 12:45 pm)Iroscato Wrote: Also, there's the whole "If you don't do this right down to the letter you will BURN FOR ETERNITY". The worst most schools do is show pictures of stereotypical unemployed bums and say "this could be you!" Well they did that at my school once or twice any way. My teachers were not exactly masters of subtlety, but compared to the average preacher...

Basically churches are the worst kind of backward, stupidly strict kind of school, but turned up to 11.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nhgfjrKi0o
[Image: Untitled2_zpswaosccbr.png]
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  At what point does faith become insanity? Fake Messiah 64 3642 May 8, 2023 at 10:37 pm
Last Post: The Architect Of Fate
  The soft toys parents hope connect kids to their faith zebo-the-fat 13 1197 October 31, 2021 at 3:50 am
Last Post: Paleophyte
  Baha'i faith Figbash 5 923 April 13, 2020 at 12:31 pm
Last Post: onlinebiker
  [Serious] Comfort in Faith at Death Shell B 142 10650 August 4, 2019 at 11:30 am
Last Post: Catholic_Lady
  Atheist who is having a crisis of faith emilsein 204 11562 April 29, 2019 at 6:41 pm
Last Post: Losty
  Faith industry Graufreud 8 815 August 8, 2018 at 6:54 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  My faith is on hold. Mystic 16 4158 May 3, 2018 at 9:40 am
Last Post: Neo-Scholastic
  Do Christians have faith in oxygen/air? MellisaClarke 83 13052 January 3, 2018 at 6:28 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  What makes your faith true? Fake Messiah 237 31597 November 12, 2017 at 3:27 am
Last Post: Odoital77
  What is "FAITH" deceptive_illusion 583 199756 October 29, 2017 at 3:52 pm
Last Post: LastPoet



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)