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Dealing with Death as an Atheist
#81
RE: Dealing with Death as an Atheist
(May 10, 2015 at 1:18 am)Cephus Wrote:
(May 9, 2015 at 6:17 pm)wallym Wrote: Do you really think it was irrational for the people 1000's of years ago to believe the world was flat?  

A modern example is Free will.  Most people believe in free will.  It looks like it's probably not real.  I don't think people living their lives like free will is real are irrational.  They are just mistaken about a premise on which they are basing their conclusions.

Do you understand the distinction I'm trying to make between faulty premises and being irrational? 

No, but 1000 years ago they had no information that demonstrated it was unreasonable.  Today, that is not the case.  A person 1000 years ago might have gotten away with all manner of irrational positions.  They cannot get away with it today.  There is a difference.
-of course they had information that demonstrated it was unreasonable............nevertheless, people will still get away with all manner of irrational shit.
(people often imagine that our ancestors were drooling idiots incapable of making the same observations - with their damned eyes- that we are capable of making today...lol, it's infuriating...people.... 1000's of years ago...so far as we can tell, -did not- think that the world was flat. You'll find flat earth stories to be an aberration, globally and temporally, if you go off looking.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#82
RE: Dealing with Death as an Atheist
(May 11, 2015 at 10:51 am)Rhythm Wrote:
(May 10, 2015 at 1:18 am)Cephus Wrote: No, but 1000 years ago they had no information that demonstrated it was unreasonable.  Today, that is not the case.  A person 1000 years ago might have gotten away with all manner of irrational positions.  They cannot get away with it today.  There is a difference.
-of course they had information that demonstrated it was unreasonable............nevertheless, people will still get away with all manner of irrational shit.
(people often imagine that our ancestors were drooling idiots incapable of making the same observations - with their damned eyes- that we are capable of making today...lol, it's infuriating...people.... 1000's of years ago...so far as we can tell, -did not- think that the world was flat.  You'll find flat earth stories to be an aberration, globally and temporally, if you go off looking.)

No, they had no information at all, they didn't know about quantum mechanics or anything about physics, they knew no details about the brain or much of anything else. They also were clueless regarding the finer points of logic and reason because most of them had virtually no formal education.  That doesn't make them stupid, it does make them ignorant, which is defined as the lack of facts on particular subjects.  We're all ignorant of things today that our ancestors will learn.  Today, we know these things and anyone with an interest and Google can find out all they need to know.  There are people who believe things because they want to believe them, because they are reacting emotionally and not intellectually.  

Depending on where you look, flat earth beliefs were either commonplace or uncommon.  The ancient Greeks knew that the Earth was spherical.  Places like the Middle East had no clue.
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#83
RE: Dealing with Death as an Atheist
quantum mechanics
-not required to come to the conclusion that the earth is not flat.


physics,
-again, not a requirement

they knew no details about the brain
-....not required.


or much of anything else.
-......sounds like you're describing us as of today at this point..lol.
 


They also were clueless regarding the finer points of logic and reason because most of them had virtually no formal education.
-not required.


 That doesn't make them stupid, it does make them ignorant, which is defined as the lack of facts on particular subjects.  We're all ignorant of things today that our ancestors will learn.  Today, we know these things and anyone with an interest and Google can find out all they need to know.  There are people who believe things because they want to believe them, because they are reacting emotionally and not intellectually.
-which was why, by and large, they believed them then, despite every observation to the contrary...but, as you noted, not everyone swallowed that pill.  In all honesty, I doubt that many people, over the course of human history, have had much of an opinion on the shape of the earth -at all-.  

Depending on where you look, flat earth beliefs were either commonplace or uncommon.  The ancient Greeks knew that the Earth was spherical.  Places like the Middle East had no clue.
[color=#333333]-"not round" does not mean flat, nor does not knowing that the earth is round mean that a group thought it was flat....you will have a very difficult time finding stories about flat earths......but of course, the middle east and ANE are the origin for quite a bit of the flat business (even though they themselves didn't actually think it was flat...later people interpreted it thusly and then enforced that interpretation, popular stories of the region liken the cosmos and the earth as a part of it to a hammered disk above.....and irregular croppy pillars beneath, or to separated halves of a sphere - as above so below, there are some good models, on the webs, as regards the cosmo models of the ANE.......they didn;t think that the earth was flat.......though, granted, they had no means of determining the truth to the exacting specificity of today..lol. It only takes a large lake (or ocean) and an eye to realize that you are looking at a "non-flat" surface.)

I'm not disagreeing so much, with the main thrust of your point, that today, it's not as easy "not to know" as it was then...just /w regards to the shape of the earth, "flat" has always been the idiots answer, that we think that -they- thought the world was flat has more to do with some idiots in the interim than it does with anything they actually believed.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



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