Hello everyone!!

[lukec]

Many people are afraid of death, and it's a huge seller, obviously, for religions which have salvation as a perk. But Ace is talking about (I think) the fact that you are really just going back to the state before you were conceived- you simply didn't exist (as an organism). Why is this scary? I am not sure. I know that this is quoted all the time, but Mark Twain sums it up well:

Annihilation has no terrors for me, because I have already tried it before I was born --a hundred million years --and I have suffered more in an hour, in this life, than I remember to have suffered in the whole hundred million years put together. There was a peace, a serenity, an absence of all sense of responsibility, an absence of worry, an absence of care, grief, perplexity; and the presence of a deep content and unbroken satisfaction in that hundred million years of holiday which I look back upon with a tender longing and with a grateful desire to resume, when the opportunity comes.

-Mark Twain

Or more simply put:

I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.

-Mark Twain

That's, to me, the best way to put it.

[CoxRox]

With respect Luke, that's a load of poetic sh***! (Sorry, I've partaken of a few glasses of wine and my tongue is somewhat loosened). When we are dead, we won't be worrying about all this. I aint dead yet, so while I can still think about it, I won't relish it. Surely this is understandable? I read an article about scientists discovering that the human cell has a kind of clock that switches off and then we start to die. They don't know why the cells don't just keep renewing themselves? I don't know if this is true?? I don't think it's 'bad' to admit that you would rather keep living if you could. That's the point I was trying to make....

[Ace Otana]

Ace, I don't think we've been acquainted yet.....

You said: 'For all we know, reality is that when we die that will be the total end for us. We will just vanish into non-existence. I'm happy with that prospect.'

Are you really happy with that prospect??

Yes we haven't be introduced yet...I'm ace, but in many forums I'm known as the Aviator. Extremely rebellious someone who has a serious habit of questioning everything and ect ect ect. Also I tend to get straight to the point.

Also, yes, I am very happy with that prospect. I do not desire never ending life. I want an end to my existence....Not yet! but one day I'll like to accept death as the total end of my existence.

I am very happy with that prospect.

[lukec]

Mark Twain is a poetic sh**, but you prefer to think that you will go to a shiny fluffy place in the sky?

When DNA replicates, at the end of replication there is a small overlap where the two new strands do not perfectly line up. So, part (a very very small part) of the DNA is lost. Luckily, cells have things called "telomeres" on the DNA which is basically non-coding DNA which, when it is "cut off" does not harm us. But the older we get, the shorter the telomere "tails" get, and so it's more "difficult" for DNA replication to properly happen. This is probably why clones have a shorter life expectancy. Oddly, cancer has a certain enzyme which "fixes" the telomere loss and so cancer can divide forever. There is a living strain from the... 50s, I believe?

As for what we wish... perhaps it would be nice to live a bit longer, (though I think I'd get bored) so that's a good point. But does wishing for something make a difference as to what actually happens?

[CoxRox]

Luke, I did say when we die, we are dead, finito. I don't think we go to a place in the sky. We no longer exist! Thanks for the info on the dna.

The point I'm struggling to get across is how anyone with any zest for life or honesty would not wish to continue a productive, loving, meaningful life. If you are ill and suffering then yes, I can understand someone wanting to end it.

Ace, I cannot understand your happiness and acceptance of your eventual demise???? To me this is counter intuitive!

[Ace Otana]

Ace, I cannot understand your happiness and acceptance of your eventual demise???? To me this is counter intuitive!

What do you know...you caused me to smile there

Ok, now I haven't existed for many billions of years, and today in this existence of mine, I do not feel effected by this. Going back into non-existence for all eternity doesn't bother me. I've acknowledged that I'm just a self aware biological lifefrom doomed to fade back into non-existence. I cannot stop this, I can only delay it. Worrying about it will not help me in anyway. Beliveing in an afterlife will not effect reality. Also I do not desire an afterlife. I want an end. Not yet though, I wish to live as long as I can but then I'd like to take that one way ticket into oblivion.

I'm very ok with that prospect I don't want to live forever. Anyway, once I'm gone, I wouldn't of even been aware that I even existed.
I see life as a taster of existing. What weve got is nothing more than a taste of existence, but the thing is, we are only allowed a certain amount of time. Which once it runs out, we return into non-existence, never to return. Which is why life is important to live to the best of your abilitys, because it will never come again. Even when billions of years pass, at least you existed once, at least you had done something in that brief time, at least you had the ability to look around in wonder and in understanding. If you see this life like I do, you see this existence as nothing more than a little taster. A taste which alot of us cannot let go.

I don't think about when I may die, but what I can do before I go.

I don't mind the idea of going back to non-existence, at least I existed once.

[CoxRox]

Ace, I dedicated Queen's song: 'Who Wants to Live Forever' to all you atheists the other day on 'chat'. It's a brilliant song. It sums up just what you are saying and believe. Enjoy....

http://beemp3.com/download.php?file=2547...ve+Forever

[Ace Otana]

Ace, I dedicated Queen's song: 'Who Wants to Live Forever' to all you atheists the other day on 'chat'. It's a brilliant song. It sums up just what you are saying and believe. Enjoy....

http://beemp3.com/download.php?file=2547...ve+Forever

I likes it!

[Edwardo Piet]

Hello atheists, skeptics, agnostics.. & Christians?

I'm just stopping by to debate and discuss religion and I often wonder why people turn to atheism if God can't be proven or disproven. It makes me think why would people turn their back on a God if they are not 100% sure? Even the author of the book, "The God Delusion" admitted that he cannot prove Jesus wasn't God. So, it makes me wonder why would someone take such a dangerous risk with their eternal fate.

I will reply to everyone in a friendly manner, but I will NOT reply to insults, defamatory statements or remarks, or slanderous remarks towards God.

If you want to hold a civilized debate about God, then let's get this place rockin'!

Greetings. Well you see the thing is its a matter of probability, or improbability in this case rather. Lets not ignore that matter.
Yes you cannot disprove the existence of God. But you can't disprove the existence of ANY God or anything supernatural. A flying spaghetti monster an invisible and intangible and yet also pink unicorn.
You cannot disprove that there is an invisible intangible Goblin in the room with you right now.
But lets not ignore the matter of probability here. All these things are obviously totally absurd and highly improbable. Because something needs to be proved that it DOES exist not proved that it does NOT exist. It's called the burden of proof. There needs to be evidence of Gods existence not evidence that God doesn't exist. Just as there doesn't need to be evidence that there is NOT an invisible intangible giant donkey in the sky that controls the universe.
To say its 50 50 that God exists or doesn't or that we have to be totally impartial and say we can't even ESTIMATE the probability to say that its highly UNlikely because there's NO evidence of existence or highly likely because theres mountains of evidence of its existence. And of course in the case of God there is certainly not mountains of evidence of his/her/its existence.
I do NOT think there is ANY. That makes God highly improbable just as it does with the intangible/donkey/unicorn/goblin/ spaghetti monster etc.
So we certainly should not ignore the matter or probability (or improbability) and the burden of proof. You don't need any reason to disbelief something other that there is no logical reason to believe that very thing. And no evidence of the truth of it.
To believe something however you need good logical reasons and you need evidence.
The burden of proof is on the believer.
Anyway, welcome and may you find more truth.

[Daystar]

Hello, and welcome, I don't know about the author of The God Delission not being able to prove Jesus wasn't God but I can.

Hi Daystar, if you get a minute I'd be interested to see your 'proofs' that Jesus isn't God, if you'd care to PM me them. Thanks....

I watched an episode of O'Reilly Factor on FOX News, and Bill O'Reilly had a guest on his show, and he is the author of the Book called, "The God Delusion." Bill O'Reilly came right out and told Professor Richard Dawkins, "You cannot prove to me that Jesus Christ wasn't God." And Mr. Dawkins agreed with him. However, Mr Dawkins told O'Reilly, "You can't prove that Thor or Zeus were not gods either."

I would love to see how you have come to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was not God.

Not only can I show that Jesus wasn't God, but I can show that Thor and Zeus were gods.

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Jesus Wasn't God

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John 8:54 -  Jesus answered: "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, he who you say is your God.

John 17:3 - This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

John 20:17 - Jesus said to her: "Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.

Matthew 26:39 - And going a little way forward, he fell upon his face, praying and saying: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will."

John 8:17-18 -  Also, in your own Law it is written, 'The witness of two men is true.' I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.

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Zeus

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Zeus was the supreme god of the Greeks, corresponding to Jupiter of the Romans. He was a god of the sky, thought to have the control of the winds, coluds, rain and thunder. His power over these forces were used in both destructive and beneficial purposes. Homer's The Iliad (VIII, 1-25) sort of presented Zeus as having greater strength than all the other gods combined but he was not regarded as supreme in the absolute sense. He became a victim of deception and yielded to the will of the Fates and Destiny.

Legends of his birth, childhood and acquisition of the throne were somewhat dwarfed in importance by the legends chiefly concerned with his many love affairs. Seducing goddesses and human women and fathering illegitimate children.

According to the Apocryphal book of 2 Maccabees 6:1-2 King Antiochus IV (Epiphanes) tried to stamp out the Jewish religion by profaning the temple at Jerusalem and rededicate it to Zeus of Olympus.

According to Acts 14:8-13 the people of Lystra identified Paul with Hermes and Barnabas with Zeus, the priest of Zeus went so far as to bring out bulls and garlands in order to offer sacrifices with the crowd.

At Acts 28:11 the apostle Paul was a prisoner on a ship that set sail from the island of Malta whose figurehead was "Sons of Zeus."

I can prove he was a god because 1909, in the area of Lystra inscriptions were found that referred to the "priests of Zeus" and "Hermes Most Great" and "Zeus the sun-god." - The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. III, p. 1944.

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Thor

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Thor was one of the many mythical gods, including Odin, Frey, Freya and Hel. A slayer of giants and ruler of winds and rain. Norse mythology is the basis for some of the Anglo-Saxon and thus English names of the week. Tyr for (Tyr's day) Tuesday, Odin (aka Woden Woden's day) Wednesday, Thor (Thor's day) for Thursday and Frigga (Frigga's day) for Friday.

Another Thor from ancient German mythology seems to have been an originator of Santa Clause. 'Thor was an elderly man, jovial and friendly, of heavy build with a long white beard. He drove a chariot and was said to live in the Northland . . . His element was fire, his color red. The fireplace in every home was sacred to him, and he was said to come down into it through the chimney.'

The European Christmas custom of burning a huge log in the fireplace came from Scandinavians who burned enormous bonfires in honor of their god of thunder, Thor.

An English Benedictine monk in the eighth century known as Boniface, the so called Apostle to Germany was considered the "greatest missionary of the Dark Ages." The Encyclopedia of Religion wrote of his method to covert people to Catholicism: "At Geismar [near Göttingen, Germany] he dared to fell the sacred oak of Thor. . . . [When he] suffered no vengeance from the resident Germanic god, it was clear that the God whom he preached was the true God who alone is to be worshipped and adored."