How does Christian God violate the logical absolutes? I'm pretty sure it has something to do with it being all-powerful, all-knowing and omniscient. 
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Logical absolutes/God
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Omni-anything makes no sense. Who is qualified to make such an attribution? Human beings are in no position to recognize omni-shit when they see it.
Many Christian theologies don't include violating the logical absolutes in their definition of 'omnipotent' as that's rather inconceivable. Many view god as maximally powerful, meaning he can do anything within the logical absolutes, and a god who is maximally powerful is still plenty able to do everything that's said of him in the bible/koran/etc.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson 
Yahweh is described as the most-est at a number of things, which can be interpreted as being as good as he needs to be or the most ever possible. Does he need to be "omnipotent" or does he simply need to be stronger than any force that might challenge him? Does he need to be "omniscient" or just smarter than anyone else can ever be? Does he need to be "omnipresent" or just have the ability to peer into our hearts and know our actions and thoughts?
If people are using "omni" attributes in order to solve logical problems, I think it winds up causing more problems than it solves. Everything from the silly (can he create a rock he can't lift?) to the sublime (Epicurus's questions regarding such attributes). And as ever, if the Bible was clear and unambiguous about the matter, it might be easier to figure out who or what god is (or was supposed to be).
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould  (June 16, 2015 at 10:06 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Many Christian theologies don't include violating the logical absolutes in their definition of 'omnipotent' as that's rather inconceivable. Many view god as maximally powerful, meaning he can do anything within the logical absolutes, and a god who is maximally powerful is still plenty able to do everything that's said of him in the bible/koran/etc. How do I counter the "God is maximally powerful" argument?  RE: Logical absolutes/God
June 16, 2015 at 10:23 am
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 10:23 am by robvalue.)
How about, "How can you possibly know that? Even if he showed up in front of you, how could he demonstrate he is maximally powerful? No matter what he does there's always something that would require even more power."
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Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum  (June 16, 2015 at 10:20 am)Britney blue Wrote:(June 16, 2015 at 10:06 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Many Christian theologies don't include violating the logical absolutes in their definition of 'omnipotent' as that's rather inconceivable. Many view god as maximally powerful, meaning he can do anything within the logical absolutes, and a god who is maximally powerful is still plenty able to do everything that's said of him in the bible/koran/etc. I already had to deal that that last night. A christian says god hates gay and nature, also he told me god is perfect. So i was like wait no god isn't perfect and he isn't all that smart, reason being why would such a supposed all knowing being create something he hate that occurs in nature. Also the fact being gay is pretty much natural even still if a so called god being hated it wouldn't he have done something about it, and that was without dragging free will into it. The point being if god hates something enough he has the power to change it but does nothing about it, so that doesn't make god all good or all smart.
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Code: <iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/255506953&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe>(June 16, 2015 at 10:20 am)Britney blue Wrote:(June 16, 2015 at 10:06 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Many Christian theologies don't include violating the logical absolutes in their definition of 'omnipotent' as that's rather inconceivable. Many view god as maximally powerful, meaning he can do anything within the logical absolutes, and a god who is maximally powerful is still plenty able to do everything that's said of him in the bible/koran/etc. Well..you can't really 'counter' an utterly unfalsifiable claim, all you can do is ask for evidence and address the evidence they bring up.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson (June 16, 2015 at 10:23 am)robvalue Wrote: How about, "How can you possibly know that? Even if he showed up in front of you, how could he demonstrate he is maximally powerful? No matter what he does there's always something that would require even more power." So you're saying if God is maximally powerful he could not violate the laws of logic and demonstrating maximal power of God is just demonstrating logic...
Well..a maximally powerful god can by definition do literally anything conceivable, including raising people from the dead, manifesting himself as a human/son, all the miracles, etc etc. When people say 'omnipotence' they nearly always mean maximally powerful, because he's omnipotent in the realm of 'anything conceivable'.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson |
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