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A Question for Catholics: Convert or Die
#1
A Question for Catholics: Convert or Die
I've been reading a bit more about Catholicism recently, both for work and other reasons which I may just make a post about after this one and I've encountered something I would appreciate any input upon.

It's no secret that historically the Roman Catholic Church has fully endorsed slaying non-believers and even dissenting Catholics. We can debate the scale of the killings but we know with the Inquisition, the Albegensian Crusade amongst other historical events it was something if not the main reason to kill entire groups could be and was frequently used as an excuse to do so.

Now seeing as I've been doing a lot on Thomistic Theology here I presumed that Aquinas as a "Doctor of the Church" was the primary source for this idea, and while it's rare to do seeing as the Summa is still held to be the definitive guide to Theology it itself is not infallible so advocating Mass Murder could be dusted under the carpet as being his own personal beliefs.

But today when reading the details of the Infallible Council of Trent (http://www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch7.htm) I encountered this little nugget.....


Quote:"CANON XIV.-If any one saith, that those who have been thus baptized when children, are, when they have grown up, to be asked whether they will ratify what their sponsors promised in their names when they were baptized; and that, in case they answer that they will not, they are to be left to their own will; and are not to be compelled meanwhile to a Christian life by any other penalty, save that they be excluded from the participation of the Eucharist, and of the other sacraments, until they repent; let him be anathema."


According to the Infallible Council of Trent, Catholics are bound by threat of excommunication (and by proxy eternal damnation) to use force of any kind, be it physical force, refusing to sell them food or firing them from their jobs to compel Heretics to submit and return to the Catholic faith. I will say only Catholic Heretics, but considering the Magesterium today considers anyone Baptized under the Trinitarian formula (which are most Protestants) to be Catholics in "imperfect communion" this is just as applicable to them.

I must ask, why do Catholics today not use force to compels former Catholics to believe? Surely if the doctrine of Infallibility is correct you must do so?
During the Counter Reformation the Roman Catholic Church was very active in enforcing these policies against the Lutherans, Huguenots and Anabaptists so why has it died out?

Why do you no longer punish apostates and heterodox Catholics, when it's very clear according to one of your most important councils you must do so or suffer Hell yourself?
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#2
RE: A Question for Catholics: Convert or Die
Quote:I must ask, why do Catholics today not use force to compels former Catholics to believe?

Because in the West they can't get away with it.

http://thisisafrica.me/vatican-exorcism-...ng-africa/


Not so in other places.

Quote:At a time when the UN and the international community are exploring ways of tackling horrific abuses related to belief in witchcraft, the papal recognition of the Association of Exorcists (comprising 250 priests in 30 countries) is a huge setback. It dims the prospects of making witch-hunting history in Africa. In fact, Vatican’s approval of exorcism will end up legitimizing this abusive process. Going by the current trend in witch persecution, the region is going to experience more witch-hunts not fewer.
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#3
RE: A Question for Catholics: Convert or Die
Well, I do understand the physical impossibility of it now. If my local Catholic Church tried to burn a Jew on the local hill they'd be stopped of course.

What I'm interested in is how this is rationalized to them. Part of the reason they're so active when it comes to say Same Sex Marriage is that they are "obligated" to stand against heresy and uphold the infallible truth. It's in name of this doctrine of infallibility they continue to uphold older (or rather what they widely think are older, tradition is not hard to invent) teachings, they seem to have missed out an even more crucial one. As far as I'm aware having gay neighbors or knowing a woman who has had an abortion won't actually condemn you yourself to hell, but according to this simply knowing a Non-Catholic Christian can and will unless you punish them continually until they convert.

I want to know why such a huge emphasis is placed upon abortion and same sex marriage above all else, when this according to their Theology is a far more dangerous and pressing issue and is surely the one they should be rising to martyrdom if need be against as they are being encouraged to do with the other "issues".

I'd be interested to know if they've got a statement exempting western Catholics from their obligation to raise an inquisition against Protestants or not :p
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#4
RE: A Question for Catholics: Convert or Die
Other places like third world countries people tend to use religion overall have the platform of control believe or we will
fucking kill you or put you in jail until you lie or they have you say what they want you to hear.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today. 


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#5
RE: A Question for Catholics: Convert or Die
Quote: It's in name of this doctrine of infallibility they continue to uphold older (or rather what they widely think are older, tradition is not hard to invent) teachings, they seem to have missed out an even more crucial one.

"God" is a very malleable concept.  I don't think it is unique to catholics.  Everyone who thinks god likes them best tries to get away with murder sooner or later.  Never forget the words of Ann Lamont.

Quote:“You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”
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