Theists and Atheists: the "is there a God Devil's advocate thread

[brewer]

It's just so sad. You poor, poor thing. Not having the love and comfort from our heavenly father must be a daily torment for you.

We don't need to prove there is a god. Just look around you, that should be proof enough. Simply listen to what we have to say and believe. have faith. Get down on your knees and pray. Pray with all of your might and he will come into your life and you will be lifted up. It's so fulfilling to live in his glorious grace. Our lives are so blessed.

Can't you see what you are missing? There is a way to be saved!

(I feel unclean)

[brewer]

Lol. I don't think that evidence is kosher, Neim

Stop persecuting me beliefs >:c

No fare playing the trump card right out of the gate!

[Pyrrho]

I thought from the thread title, that we would be arguing that Satan was good.  Certainly, compared with God in the Bible, he is much less evil:

If you want a listing, here is one that includes the Apocrypha (which is why the total is higher than in the graphic):

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

You can also find slightly different numbers based on the fact that there are different versions of the Bible, so don't let a little difference worry you too much.  The point is the same regardless.

Also, regarding Satan's 10:

It appears that Satan only killed 10 people: the seven sons and three daughters of Job. And he only does this because god allowed it as part of a bet!. Technically the blood is on god's hands for these as well. 

http://www.quora.com/According-to-the-Bible-who-killed-more-people-Satan-or-God

In other words, satan only killed the 10 because God wanted him to kill them, so that God could win his bet about Job.  (The book of Job is something you may want to read, for a good view of the God character.)

[Faith No More]

You can't prove my god doesn't exist.

Checkmate.

[robvalue]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is defined as the one and only true creator that is made of pasta and must exist.

I don't even need to prove he exists. It's in the title. So what you got atheist cob nobs?

[bennyboy]

If God doesn't exist, then who/what turned my life into such a horrible fuckfest?

[Pizza]

If a personal god doesn't exist, then how do you explain the teleology of cancer?

[ignoramus]

Who else but a loving god would make my hand fit perfectly around my dick!
And yes, jesus died so I can play with it!

[Mudhammam]

So, let me introduce this argument by saying that it's 8 am and I have been up all night, and that I just typed it up as the thoughts came to me, and am only presenting it for the fun of pursuing discussion wherever it leads. I cannot vouch for the internal consistency or necessity of the premises and conclusion that follows, but maybe someone can improve on it or demolish one or more of the lines it takes.

(P1) Human reality is comprised of the phenomenal (experience) and the conceptual (ideas about experience).
(P2) These in turn are assumed to derive from an external or objective reality,
(P2a) the nature of which is unknown or non-apprehensible except as it relates to experience and idea.
(P3) The phenomenal and the conceptual are non-existent and insubstantial, as the phenomenal is always perceived to be in a state of becoming (hence, non-existent as existence implies being and becoming precedes being) and the conceptual is insubstantial insofar that ideas have no concrete existence apart from the phenomenal impressions they stand to signify.
(P4) Furthermore, as criterion requires either additional criterion or proof to demonstrate its validity in rendering a judgment vis-à-vis criterion or proof, and likewise proof requires either additional proof or criterion to demonstrate its validity in rendering a judgment vis-à-vis proof or criterion, all efforts to make a positive claim about truth beyond subjective appearances will result in the impossibility of ad infinitum demonstrations or circular reasoning.
(P5) Human reality, encompassing our notions of truth and untruth, therefore, is relative to the unknown conditions that comprise external reality,
(P5a) which, reaffirming P4, compound the groundlessness of our experiences and ideas as criterion for accepting or rejecting substances or properties associated with the various definitions of God.
(P6) Given P4-P5a, the question of a God, dimly or superficially understood by way of negation, analogy, and/or metaphor, boils down to utility.
(P7) Utility may include individual happiness or health, and as societal animals, precludes a necessity of external or objective criterion of truth, morality, and being, which, per P3, P4, and P5a, are otherwise non-existent, insubstantial, and impossible to establish, and yet,
(P8) due to P2 and P2a, such faith, which is the inevitable first step towards knowledge, must be held in an undogmatic fashion.

[robvalue]

I'm glad I'm a theist in this thread and I don't have to chew on that lot!

Hey, where's the atheists? Are we just getting all our gods for free here?