Posts: 44022
Threads: 529
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: Death Penalty
August 30, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Quote:I think the biggest problem with the death penalty is that too many mistakes are made in the criminal justice system.
Seriously... that's the 'biggest problem' with capital punishment?
It isn't a matter of 'mistakes'. If a man is caught on undoctored video gunning down a group of four year old children and then burning the bodies, the death penalty is still wrong.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9176
Threads: 76
Joined: November 21, 2013
Reputation:
40
RE: Death Penalty
August 30, 2015 at 2:21 pm
(August 30, 2015 at 2:13 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: I think the biggest problem with the death penalty is that too many mistakes are made in the criminal justice system. If a mistake is discovered and the person is in prison, the person can be set free. If they were executed, then even partial restitution is impossible.
Basically, with the death penalty, innocent people will be killed by the state, because there will always be mistakes made. How do you feel about supporting a policy which guarantees that the state will kill innocent people?
In the U.S., it is also unfairly and inconsistently imposed, and that is another reason to be against it here, at least as presently practiced.
We do have a big imprisonment problem, and part of that is the for-profit prison systems and the war on drugs. however, only about 4% of executions are mistakes, and that number is likely to go down over time. 4% is still a lot of people, but it would be even lower is they only killed people in the most extreme cases.
Posts: 13900
Threads: 262
Joined: January 11, 2009
Reputation:
82
RE: Death Penalty
August 30, 2015 at 2:22 pm
(August 30, 2015 at 10:07 am)robvalue Wrote: Personally I'd rather be done in than spend the rest of my life in jail. I've always felt that way.
The death penalty is difficult. My opinion of it has changed somewhat recently. I was pro, but now I'm leaning a bit towards against. It's not a simple matter of kill or not kill, there are many more factors involved. I'm pretty ignorant of it all, but I'm aware it's not an issue in isolation.
Of course I'd prefer a society where there is no death penalty, and no knock-on bad effects, ideally with the inmates doing something productive instead while in jail.
Some mistakes you just can't undo.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Posts: 3395
Threads: 43
Joined: February 8, 2015
Reputation:
33
RE: Death Penalty
August 30, 2015 at 2:25 pm
(August 30, 2015 at 2:15 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: And, you know, it's fucking killing people ._.
Sissy!
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
Posts: 44022
Threads: 529
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: Death Penalty
August 30, 2015 at 2:28 pm
Quote:We do have a big imprisonment problem, and part of that is the for-profit prison systems and the war on drugs. however, only about 4% of executions are mistakes, and that number is likely to go down over time. 4% is still a lot of people, but it would be even lower is they only killed people in the most extreme cases.
Specifically, what percentage of innocent people executed by the State do you find acceptable?
A quick google informs me that there are about 3000 people in the US awaiting execution (the number fluctuates). Assuming your 4% figure is correct, then 120 innocent people are facing capital punishment. Would you be happy if it were 3% (90 people), 2% (60 people), or some smaller figure?
Let's go all the way to the low end and assume - since no system of justice can ever be made perfect - that only a single USian inmate is wrong executed. Would you support that system? After all, it's only one person who died for a crime they did not commit.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 5356
Threads: 178
Joined: June 28, 2015
Reputation:
35
RE: Death Penalty
August 30, 2015 at 2:34 pm
I would support that system as long as that unfortunate little puker aian't me
Posts: 9176
Threads: 76
Joined: November 21, 2013
Reputation:
40
RE: Death Penalty
August 30, 2015 at 2:35 pm
What percentage of batshit crazy people in the world do you find acceptable? It's a loaded question. I'd rather not have anything less than perfection, but I don't want to throw out a system because occasionally something bad happens.
Posts: 8661
Threads: 118
Joined: May 7, 2011
Reputation:
57
RE: Death Penalty
August 30, 2015 at 3:04 pm
I have never heard any convincing reason that is pro-death penalty.
I was just looking at this series of data and statistics the other day. Perfect place to share it!
Graphs about the Death Penalty
Posts: 3395
Threads: 43
Joined: February 8, 2015
Reputation:
33
RE: Death Penalty
August 30, 2015 at 3:05 pm
(August 30, 2015 at 2:15 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: (August 30, 2015 at 2:30 am)pool Wrote: Why do we kill people for killing people to show that killing is wrong?
Mind = Blown.
We don't. But then I live in a civilised country. 
Braggart.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
Posts: 21818
Threads: 24
Joined: February 2, 2010
Reputation:
106
RE: Death Penalty
August 30, 2015 at 3:58 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2015 at 3:59 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(August 30, 2015 at 2:35 pm)Chad32 Wrote: What percentage of batshit crazy people in the world do you find acceptable? It's a loaded question. I'd rather not have anything less than perfection, but I don't want to throw out a system because occasionally something bad happens.
When a system results in such an unrepairable error, it should not be in place. Injustice is inevitably corrosive to our system of justice, and what is more unjust than killing an innocent man for a crime he didn't commit?
Shit, we're here on an atheist forum, and that is one of our arguments against a good God -- that he killed the innocent in order to deliver "justice" -- and you're here allowing that that isn't really that bad?
Perhaps were it you awaiting your own unjust execution, would that modify your views?
|
