Why i don't respect your religion or your faith

[Lemonvariable72]

Wait so if he lives on for a day or two there's a different punishment or no punishment?

Sort of. If you beat a Hebrew slave and he dies in a day or two then I believe there is a fine. If he lives for a time then there is no punishment. However these rules were only for Hebrew slaves and a gentile slave could be killed at will with no punishment.

[vorlon13]

As an amateur genealogist, I have learned that many of my ancestors owned slaves.  I was re-reading my Great-great grandmother's memoir just the other day.  At first, she comes across like a genteel, intelligent, proper xtian wife, who is writing about the 1850's.  The prose is just drowned in "the good lord ____" and "the good lord blessed us with ____" ad nauseum.  And then there was this statement "After the trip to Texas, the weather turned cold.  Thankfully we had plenty of Negroes to help build houses."  Further reading shows a woman who has been told all her life that slavery was the will of God, and the natural order of mankind.  She believed that Negroes were the "children of Ham" who were cursed by God for disobedience, and that they were an inferior species of human that were happiest when they had the guidance of white xtian masters.  

(Every time I think of this I feel sick.)  She was completely brainwashed.  This message came from someone who prayed for hours for her children and her husband, trying to be the "holy wife" God intended her to be.  It would have been almost impossible for her to think any other way -- it was the culture of her time and place.  

What I don't get is why so many African-Americans are STILL Christian.  Why isn't it associated with the religion of the slavers, that they were forced to accept?  Why haven't more African-Americans gone on a search for the religion of their ancestors?  I would think that, if I were a freed slave, one of the first things I would reject would be "the Massa's" god.    ???

Until their new revelation back in the 70s, the Mormons asserted the blacks (and apparently everyone else that was not caucasian) were not only descended from Ham, but also Cain.

Additionally, there is/was some unspecified mischief souls destined to become descendants of Cain/Ham did in their pre-existence that caused them to be cursed and to then be descendants of Cain/Ham.

So, in the Mormon orbit, blacks (well, people of any color but white) were triple fucked.

Interesting fact:

the original version of the polygamy revelation specified the subsequent wives beyond the first were to be Native American (if not all the rest?) so that their offspring would be lighter and therefore more delightful to God than they would be otherwise.  It doesn't appear Joseph Smith was terribly impressed with this revelation, direct from God, and perfectly recorded, so it was changed.  Brigham Young tried adding 2 native American wives to his 'harem', but wasn't impressed with them at all and abandoned them in Council Bluffs, Iowa, prior to migrating to Utah.

Presumably the revelation/edict/decree (whatever?) that rescinded polygamy covered all the versions of the revelation, although, I'd suspect since the Mormon hierarchy does not acknowledge any revelations being changed, one might argue that polygamy in regards to subsequent wives being native American only is technically still in effect.

Curiously, the FLDS does not acknowledge the original version of the polygamy revelation either, and does not acknowledge the subsequent rescission.  I'm not sure how not acknowledging the rescission would be applied if the FLDS was confronted with an potential schism over the matter in regards to Native American wives subsequent to their first caucasian ones.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

As an amateur genealogist, I have learned that many of my ancestors owned slaves.  I was re-reading my Great-great grandmother's memoir just the other day.  At first, she comes across like a genteel, intelligent, proper xtian wife, who is writing about the 1850's.  The prose is just drowned in "the good lord ____" and "the good lord blessed us with ____" ad nauseum.  And then there was this statement "After the trip to Texas, the weather turned cold.  Thankfully we had plenty of Negroes to help build houses."  Further reading shows a woman who has been told all her life that slavery was the will of God, and the natural order of mankind.  She believed that Negroes were the "children of Ham" who were cursed by God for disobedience, and that they were an inferior species of human that were happiest when they had the guidance of white xtian masters.  

(Every time I think of this I feel sick.)  She was completely brainwashed.  This message came from someone who prayed for hours for her children and her husband, trying to be the "holy wife" God intended her to be.  It would have been almost impossible for her to think any other way -- it was the culture of her time and place.  

What I don't get is why so many African-Americans are STILL Christian.  Why isn't it associated with the religion of the slavers, that they were forced to accept?  Why haven't more African-Americans gone on a search for the religion of their ancestors?  I would think that, if I were a freed slave, one of the first things I would reject would be "the Massa's" god.    ???

First of all, African-Americans are part white so the religion of their ancestors was Christian.  You would be hard-pressed to find an African-American in 2015 America who isn't part white.

Second, the Revolutionary War was fought to maintain slavery in America but the propaganda is that it was fought over taxes and representation.  So since people are so thoroughly brainwashed about that how can they understand other complex issues?

[Athene]

As an amateur genealogist, I have learned that many of my ancestors owned slaves.  I was re-reading my Great-great grandmother's memoir just the other day.  At first, she comes across like a genteel, intelligent, proper xtian wife, who is writing about the 1850's.  The prose is just drowned in "the good lord ____" and "the good lord blessed us with ____" ad nauseum.  And then there was this statement "After the trip to Texas, the weather turned cold.  Thankfully we had plenty of Negroes to help build houses."  Further reading shows a woman who has been told all her life that slavery was the will of God, and the natural order of mankind.  She believed that Negroes were the "children of Ham" who were cursed by God for disobedience, and that they were an inferior species of human that were happiest when they had the guidance of white xtian masters.  

(Every time I think of this I feel sick.)  She was completely brainwashed.  This message came from someone who prayed for hours for her children and her husband, trying to be the "holy wife" God intended her to be.  It would have been almost impossible for her to think any other way -- it was the culture of her time and place.  

What I don't get is why so many African-Americans are STILL Christian.  Why isn't it associated with the religion of the slavers, that they were forced to accept?  Why haven't more African-Americans gone on a search for the religion of their ancestors?  I would think that, if I were a freed slave, one of the first things I would reject would be "the Massa's" god.    ???

I would imagine the reason why there are so many black Christians is the same reason why most Americans identify
as Christian. The answer being: Just because.   It's that simple.

The theists on this forum are the exception to obvious fact that most Christians just don't read the Bible. Not most of it, anyway. Most people are comfortable going along with it because that's just how it's always been. 
Heaven seeming like a pretty sweet deal, the fact that no one feels like examining the all of the Bible in depth because it's tedious and BORING, and the business of living everyday life, doesn't put people in a space where they want to question what's always been. It's just easier to go along.

Oh yeah, and the Hell thing. That's enough to squash any vague doubts that pop in from time to time....so, fuuuuuck that. Best to stick with what you know.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Simple question for the OP. Has the existence of the United States and its role in shaping the modern world been a positive influence on the rest of the world?

[Neo-Scholastic]

... therefore the Christians that opposed slavery (and rightly so) were actually discarding their religious morality for secular morality on this issue.

The conversion of John Newton, a slaver and inpiration to Wilderforce, who went on to write 'Amazing Grace', refutes your point.

[Lemonvariable72]

... therefore the Christians that opposed slavery (and rightly so) were actually discarding their religious morality for secular morality on this issue.

The conversion of John Newton, a slaver and inpiration to Wilderforce, who went on to write 'Amazing Grace', refutes your point.

No it doesn't. He may have been a Christian yes, but to petition for repealing slavery is repealing against the laws of God himself. The bible spells it out clearly. Slavery is allowed by the word of God. That's not to say say that Christians can't be against slavery, many were in fact. But the truth stands as the bible condones and justifies slavery without a single utterance against it.

[dyresand]

Simple question for the OP. Has the existence of the United States and its role in shaping the modern world been a positive influence on the rest of the world?

Hmm.. starting from world war 2 yes lately though it's a still yes i mean we kinda fighting religious extremists. The main positive affects is we actually do stuff to help others
we give relief to those who are affected by natural disasters and modern medicine and technology the internet. Either way you put it what has religion done for humanity that was positive?

[vorlon13]

Good reasons to not respect a given religion:

the folks practicing it aren't doing it right according to their own edicts, decrees, rules, promulgations, strictures, and commandments

the folks practicing it are willfully ignorant of facts falsifying their own religion

no one in the religion's hierarchy is a sincere believer in their professed faith

church dogma contradicts reality

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Simple question for the OP. Has the existence of the United States and its role in shaping the modern world been a positive influence on the rest of the world?

Wow.

I'm trying to think of a more vague, over-broad, and open-ended question than that one, but I can't.

Overall? In the 18th century? In the 19th? In the 20th? Which half of the 20th century, pre- or post-WW2 America?

And boy, if we get into whether our influence is "positive" or not, what factors must we consider, and what values must we assign to each boon or sin? Our invention of a persistent form of Constitutional Republic democracy in the 18th century? Reaching the moon? Developing the internet? Being not only one of the last western nations to let go of slavery but actually fighting a war to try to preserve it? Sponsoring and training death squads and supporting dictators and military juntas in Central/South American nations if they'd back our corporate interests in fighting communism? Becoming the Arsenal of Democracy for the 2nd World War and bailing out the Allies? Putting those allies into massive economic debt to us in order to gain hegemony via the Petrodollar system over the oil resources of the globe? Developing the rapid genome testing methods? Being the only nation to have used nuclear weapons against another nation? Genocide against our indigenous peoples? Incarcerating seven times more of our people per capita than any other first world nation? Widest gap in economic disparity?

I mean, geez, I could go on like this for pages! (And I'm not even trying to assign weight-values to each as I go.)