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Deism vs. Atheism
#11
RE: Deism vs. Atheism
(May 22, 2010 at 2:11 pm)Watson Wrote: Atheist_named_Christian, I would take contention with you rpoint that Christians do not believe in logic, reason, or physical proof- we do, just in a very different way than an atheist or a deist. A much simpler form of logic is applied, in my mind, to the world when through a Christian view-point, and reason is used as much as possible. To say otherwise is simply untrue.

Well, in my world, there is only ONE SORT of logic, reason and evidence - you cannot use it in a "different way". I know that a lot of people who claim to be "Christians" use reason in their everyday lives (This is good, because otherwise we would live like 2000 years ago) - but this simply contradicts logic (in a strict, mathematical/philosophical sense), as most of the christian believes are in clear contradiction to physical evidence. Additionally, obviously none of these believes is backed up by any evidence at all.

However, to get back to the topic: I can clearly see, that a theist cannot understand what I wrote - that is why I especially asked the Deists and Atheists to answer.

I agree with Flying_sceptic, that for a Deist who does not believe in life after death (as Flew) nothing is "improved" from going from Atheist to Deist. However, as I stated before (and I don't think there wasan argument against it until now), I cannot see the difference between calling everything unknown "god" or simply "unknown" - what's the point?
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#12
RE: Deism vs. Atheism
A deist is an atheist who can't let go of believing in some sort of divine agency.

Look at when deism was popular- the Enlightenment period, basically. Europe was beginning to move towards a more scientific and less supernatural view of the world.

Many intellectuals (Voltaire, Hume, Jefferson...) found it impossible to believe in the christian fairytale any more. But there was a strong stigma against atheism- it was a bit like being a socialist in the US today. Also, of course, they'd been brought up christian, and lived in a strongly christian society- not believing in any god at all was a very difficult step to make.

Deism is a kind of unhappy compromise position imo.
He who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
Mikhail Bakunin

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything
Friedrich Nietzsche
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#13
RE: Deism vs. Atheism
I can see that as feasible. Deism is the acceptance that there is no god present, while hanging onto the idea of a 'creator'. It is one step removed from atheism, which says the god which is not present... never was.
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#14
RE: Deism vs. Atheism
(May 23, 2010 at 11:54 am)Caecilian Wrote: A deist is an atheist who can't let go of believing in some sort of divine agency.

Look at when deism was popular- the Enlightenment period, basically. Europe was beginning to move towards a more scientific and less supernatural view of the world.

Many intellectuals (Voltaire, Hume, Jefferson...) found it impossible to believe in the christian fairytale any more. But there was a strong stigma against atheism- it was a bit like being a socialist in the US today. Also, of course, they'd been brought up christian, and lived in a strongly christian society- not believing in any god at all was a very difficult step to make.

Deism is a kind of unhappy compromise position imo.

Thanks, Caecilian - this historic explanation makes indeed perfect sense. Does anyone know, how popular Deism still is?

Edith says: I found some numbers for the US, 2001: No Religion 27M, Atheism 900k, Deism 49k followers - even Scientology has more (55k). I also wonder, what god these 27M non-religious theists believe in ...
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