Thoughts on migrant crisis and Islam.

[paulpablo]

I just thought I'd post this thread because there's a whole load of other separate threads which are basically in some way about this main topic and I wanted to know what everyone else's thoughts are about how this situation is going to turn out.

I think the facts that no one can dispute is that hundreds of thousands of refugees are flooding Europe. 

They have a low literacy rate relative to European standards and a high breeding rate relative to European standards.

The Muslim terrorists from these countries where the refugees are coming from are unlikely to ever stop killing large groups of people in organized terrorist attacks in Europe, this is a pretty well informed though prediction rather than a fact. And this is a prediction very specifically aimed at Muslims and not at any other religions from these countries.  I really wouldn't be worried about Christian terrorist attacks at this point.

The backlash from this last attack, from what I can gather is to send more planes to Syria to bomb terrorists.

I'm can't say I know what the best answer is to this situation.

But one thing that goes through my mind is what is the actual BEST outcome that COULD happen here that anyone is aiming for?

Is it that the planes missiles are so accurate they bomb all the bad guys to death, the bad guys have no family relatives to replace them and all the refugees say thank you for their stay in Europe and thank you for defeating evil and go back to their home land of peace and tranquillity?

Do you think this situation is going to effect you or is it effecting you?  Do you think it will effect anyone significantly if all refugees are allowed to enter anywhere they want within reason?

[Dystopia]

It won't affect my country that much, but Germany and France and Sweden will struggle.

You make a point about low literacy - It turns out the idea that most refugees were super qualified was a myth, as explained by many newspapers - Unless you think having a hairdresser dregree means very qualified. The high breeding is also an interesting part - Europe is more atheist, more secular, less religious, but we are importing people who are very religious by nature, I wonder how this will affect societies that have been growing more liberal, more scientifically literate and less intolerant. There's many correlations between lack of religiosity and positive elements for Humans, regardless of whether it is Islam or Christianity.

One thing I find weird is this - Why are the refugees fleeing instead of fighting for their country? I mean, if France or Germany were invaded, I'm sure most Germans, at least men, would be called to arms and would have to fight - Why aren't Syrians fighting for Syria and instead running away? Specially if moderates are a majority, wouldn't they easily overwhelm bad guys?

[Ludwig]

I don't think I have anything to worry about. The Japanese are probably the only people that are more xenophobic than the Swiss.

[Dystopia]

I don't think I have anything to worry about. The Japanese are probably the only people that are more xenophobic than the Swiss.

Swiss are xenophobic? Didn't know

[Ludwig]

I don't think I have anything to worry about. The Japanese are probably the only people that are more xenophobic than the Swiss.

Swiss are xenophobic? Didn't know

Oh yeah. It's not something to be proud of but it is what it is.

Here's an interesting article about it: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/racism_one-i...s/41271694

[The Grand Nudger]

It won't affect my country that much, but Germany and France and Sweden will struggle.

You make a point about low literacy - It turns out the idea that most refugees were super qualified was a myth, as explained by many newspapers - Unless you think having a hairdresser dregree means very qualified. The high breeding is also an interesting part - Europe is more atheist, more secular, less religious, but we are importing people who are very religious by nature, I wonder how this will affect societies that have been growing more liberal, more scientifically literate and less intolerant. There's many correlations between lack of religiosity and positive elements for Humans, regardless of whether it is Islam or Christianity.

One thing I find weird is this - Why are the refugees fleeing instead of fighting for their country? I mean, if France or Germany were invaded, I'm sure most Germans, at least men, would be called to arms and would have to fight - Why aren't Syrians fighting for Syria and instead running away? Specially if moderates are a majority, wouldn't they easily overwhelm bad guys?

They are fighting.  Consider this, the entire US Military is roughly 1.6 million people, there are 318 million americans.  Let's do napkin math and call it .5%  It's really not that remarkable to find that Syrian resistance is low, there are 22.5 million of them.  If they could field a force as large as the US Military, adjusted per capita, that would only be a little over 100k (assuming they all fought on the same side).  Continuing the comparison, only 20% of our forces are combat arms.  So, 20k armed Syrian resistence....assuming they could field a force commensurate to the US Military, again. Last estimates I saw (admittedly very dated) put their actual number at 100k (and nary a typist or dental assistant among them), 5 times the per capita combat arms deployed by our own forces.

[Minimalist]

But one thing that goes through my mind is what is the actual BEST outcome that COULD happen here that anyone is aiming for?

The best outcome would be a negotiated settlement in Syria which will not include ISIS so they can continue to be bombed at will.  The second best outcome would be that we learn that we cannot take our "one-size-fits-all" mentality and apply it to democracy in a land which is manifestly not ready for it.

[vorlon13]

sort of an Islamic spin to Idiocracy ?

[paulpablo]

But one thing that goes through my mind is what is the actual BEST outcome that COULD happen here that anyone is aiming for?

The best outcome would be a negotiated settlement in Syria which will not include ISIS so they can continue to be bombed at will.  The second best outcome would be that we learn that we cannot take our "one-size-fits-all" mentality and apply it to democracy in a land which is manifestly not ready for it.

But this is another part of the frustration for me.  Military fighting against ISIS might be able to attack a few military points, but ISIS don't have a giant evil castle up on a hill which they dominate the innocent villagers from. From what I understand they blend in with innocent civilians.

The way I see it the military has two options about ways to fight and both are shit but both are probably happening right now.

2) The American classic method of bombing the fuck out of everything including a few weddings and camera men along the way.  This is like trying to use a hammer to solve an arithmetic puzzle, finding out it doesn't work, then using more hammers.

3) Using the CIA to fund and arm an opposition to ISIS, which will probably result in an even crazier bunch of bastards running around with American weapons and funds.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, the regular citizens rarely drive tech trucks with 40mm recoilless rifles mounted in the beds, but other than that, yeah, they blend in.