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Current time: March 28, 2024, 8:21 pm

Poll: .
This poll is closed.
Yes, absolutely
56.67%
17 56.67%
Yes, but with certain limitations/conditions (plz explain)
23.33%
7 23.33%
No
13.33%
4 13.33%
other (plz explain)
6.67%
2 6.67%
Total 30 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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To take or not to take Syrian refugees
#21
RE: To take or not to take Syrian refugees
(November 17, 2015 at 9:52 am)Aractus Wrote:
(November 17, 2015 at 9:14 am)Dystopia Wrote: I voted "no". I have found no compelling reason to vote "yes". I'm not someone who believes there is a moral duty to help other countries unless there's some sort of long term friendship or alliance between them. By a matter of coherence, I think it's unfair to take only some refugees and ban others, so either I choose to help all of them or none. Therefore, my answer is "no".

PS - I wouldn't really answer any differently if the group fleeing were non-Muslims.

But... As with anything, being strategic matters. The enemy of my enemy is my friend... I feel compelled to say I don't disagree with taking in all refugees because it will speed up the collapse of the EU, something I've been awaiting far too long.

It's not a moral issue, it's a legal issue.

A legal issue that exists due a pseudo-objective smug sense of morality that is imposed on western nations for no particular reason other than pity and making people feel guilty. Is there any reason I should care about the UN or consider them a respectable institution in the international paradigm, other than the fact that it is ruled by countries with more power?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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#22
RE: To take or not to take Syrian refugees
The refugee vetting process is already very thorough. Out of 750,000 refugees accepted into the USA, not one terrorists. Out of all the ways a terrorist could choose to enter the USA, gaining refugee status is the most difficult. Homeland Security is heavily involved.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#23
RE: To take or not to take Syrian refugees
@ CL I understand your points completely but then surely you could just as easily have voted yes and put it like this: "As a Catholic I believe the right thing to do would be to let them in, so I voted "yes", however I do not expect the government to actually do it and I wouldn't blame them for that because this is a secular government, not a Catholic government."

So the question is: Are we voting for what we expect from the government or what we ourselves personally think the ideal decision would be?

I voted "yes". I would vote for "with certain limitations" but I am simply not knowledgeable enough on the issue to know what those limitations would fully be, for example: I don't know what the checking for terrorists would involve before clearing a refugee and letting them in. So I decided to generalize and vote "yes".

I don't buy into the whole "One country is not obligated to let other citizens in" because from an ethical point of view I think that the sufferings of all people from all countries matter and are relevant and I care just as much about innocent refugee's sufferings from other countries than I do about the citizens in my country. I am not a very political person at all, I'm thoroughly ignorant of politics: But I am very interested in ethics and I think ethics covers the bigger picture because it doesn't deal with specific countries but the whole world, and even other species.
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#24
RE: To take or not to take Syrian refugees
Of course.
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#25
RE: To take or not to take Syrian refugees
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free-”

-pretty much settles it for me.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#26
RE: To take or not to take Syrian refugees
I voted 'Yes, absolutely'. For me, this is a humanitarian issue that transcends the concept of 'nation': people need help to escape from horrible transgressions against their person and their rights. It's a no-brainer. That doesn't mean that everyone who claims to be a refugee is one and that's where the UN Convention (thanks for the link Aractus) helps provide minimum qualifications. I think they're very balanced and fairly represent potential refugees.

I understand the security issues and think that the best course of action is the one we currently use in the UK: border agents screen people at entry and cross-reference data with the intelligence agencies, both domestic & international. So-far, the agents in the UK have done an amazing job at protecting both the refugees and the UK citizenry (in spite being hampered by Conservative politicing).
Sum ergo sum
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#27
RE: To take or not to take Syrian refugees
Ostensibly the purpose of limiting immigration from Syria is to avoid the importation of terrorists. While a laudable goal, limiting immigration is not an effective method of stopping terrorism in your country. It is too easy to get in, and there are way too many soft targets for this strategy to be effective. Therefore I say yes, as a no vote rests on an unsound strategy.
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#28
RE: To take or not to take Syrian refugees
Whether we take them or not, they are leaving. They have to go somewhere. Taking them in with an emphasis on vetting and assimilation will produce a net gain in moderate Islam. They need to have their own Enlightenment. They need some goofball prophet to have a Joseph Smith moment and pump out an Allah-inspired New Testament. That shit ain't happening if we let them languish in the hinterlands. That is where resentment and extremism is bred and terrorism is fostered.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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#29
RE: To take or not to take Syrian refugees
Well, "fuck you, I've got mine" is always a viable option. It all depends on your values, doesn't it.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#30
RE: To take or not to take Syrian refugees
Depends on how funny and entertaining they are.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:

"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."

For context, this is the previous verse:

"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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