Understanding the Bible/Christianity

[Cecelia]

It's just a metaphor. In fact everything in the bible makes much more sense if it's all a metaphor. Christians will of course agree certain parts are a metaphor or allegory. But the rest? Totally legit. Anything science has explained away? They say science is either lying, or it's a metaphor. You'd think if a book was inspired by someone who created the universe they wouldn't need metaphors.

[Mystic]

What his face? How does it shine? What does it mean to seek his face? Psalm 105:4. And what does it have to do with God's strength? Psalm 105:4

Wherever the term 'face' is used in the Word, it always corresponds to mind and its affections since those form the basis of our identity. Light in the Word always corresponds to some kind of Truth. Thus to seek His "face" is to seek His Divine Truth and God's strength is in His Truth.

I agree with what you said. Would you say seeing the "identity" linked to God is due to it being from God's essence (an emanation from him)? What else does Bible say about this?

Would you say "all good actions" are features of this face, the inward reality of it, every time we do good acts, we are somewhat guided by them, and illuminated by them, hence, they are aspects of his face?

[Mystic]

It's just a metaphor.  In fact everything in the bible makes much more sense if it's all a metaphor.  Christians will of course agree certain parts are a metaphor or allegory.  But the rest?  Totally legit.   Anything science has explained away?  They say science is either lying, or it's a metaphor.  You'd think if a book was inspired by someone who created the universe they wouldn't need metaphors.

I don't think it's "just" a metaphor. But it's the metaphor of all metaphors along side the "his name""his word""his light".

[Neo-Scholastic]

Wherever the term 'face' is used in the Word, it always corresponds to mind and its affections since those form the basis of our identity. Light in the Word always corresponds to some kind of Truth. Thus to seek His "face" is to seek His Divine Truth and God's strength is in His Truth.

I agree with what you said. Would you say seeing the "identity" linked to God is due to it being from God's essence (an emanation from him)? What else does Bible say about this?

Would you say "all good actions" are features of this face, the inward reality of it, every time we do good acts, we are somewhat guided by them, and illuminated by them, hence, they are aspects of his face?

Pretty much so, but not just the "face". The Church is Christ's Body in the World. We are his hands to spread healing and mercy. His feet to stand strong. His eyes to witness. His mouth to testify. All of this to the extent that we do His good.

There is also a deeper mystical component to this. Of ourselves, human beings are not good and we do not do good. It is only God working through us that is good. He gets all the credit. In other words, we don't do good acts. God does the good acts and we just have to show up.

[Mystic]

In Islam, God is said to be worthier of our good deeds/virtues then ourselves. While our bad actions are more worthier to be attributed to ourselves. This is said both in Quran and hadiths. From one perspective, all of it is from God. From another perspective, good is from God, and evil is from ourselves.

"You did not throw when you threw but God threw".

[Foxaèr]

In Islam

[Mystic]

Ok my next question seeks to understand the central theme of redemption in Christianity.


How were people guided and saved by God's face during Abraham's time on earth?

How were people guided and saved by God's face during Jesus's time on earth?

Is there any real difference inwardly or is it a world of difference?

To me it seems the essence is to submit to the call of God's face. An Atheist who does good as he knows it might be submitting to God's face in the best way he can.

However, if someone recognizes Moses signs and miracles, but then, rejects them, he is be rebellious towards what has outwardly come to him of God's face (ie. Moses and his revelation).

What I want to understand is what changed all of sudden when Jesus came?

How were people suppose to repent and redeem themselves in the past, and be saved and guided, and get God's forgiveness through God's grace, that now changed all of a sudden when Christ came.

Or is it all misunderstanding and nothing really changed, but really Jesus was emphasizing, that Israel corrupted God's religion, inwardly were away from the spirit of God and his religion, and that now Jesus was their only salvation, and there was no other way for the people but to go through him.

At that without Jesus's intercession, it would mean God has not forgiven them, while it was still upon them to repent, but accept the door towards God (Jesus) at this point.

I want to understand how can the inward of the religion change all of a sudden into a drastic change? Or perhaps it didn't? Perhaps just as people had to enter the ark of Noah (metaphorical I personally believe in the Quran, not sure if it's metaphorical in the Bible), now people had to gain God's forgiveness and approval through entering the Mastery of God's anointed King and authority on earth, which was Jesus at that time.

[Drich]

Ok my next question seeks to understand the central theme of redemption in Christianity.


How were people guided and saved by God's face during Abraham's time on earth?

How were people guided and saved by God's face during Jesus's time on earth?

Is there any real difference inwardly or is it a world of difference?

To me it seems the essence is to submit to the call of God's face. An Atheist who does good as he knows it might be submitting to God's face in the best way he can.

However, if someone recognizes Moses signs and miracles, but then,  rejects them,  he is be rebellious towards what has outwardly come to him of God's face (ie. Moses and his revelation).

What I want to understand is what changed all of sudden when Jesus came?

How were people suppose to repent and redeem themselves in the past, and be saved and guided, and get God's forgiveness through God's grace, that now changed all of a sudden when Christ came.

Or is it all misunderstanding and nothing really changed, but really Jesus was emphasizing, that Israel corrupted God's religion, inwardly were away from the spirit of God and his religion, and that now Jesus was their only salvation, and there was no other way for the people but to go through him.

At that without Jesus's intercession, it would mean God has not forgiven them, while it was still upon them to repent, but accept the door towards God (Jesus) at this point.

I want to understand how can the inward of the religion change all of a sudden into a drastic change? Or perhaps it didn't? Perhaps just as people had to enter the ark of Noah (metaphorical I personally believe in the Quran, not sure if it's metaphorical in the Bible), now people had to gain God's forgiveness and approval through entering the Mastery of God's anointed King and authority on earth, which was Jesus at that time.

Paul Explains the difference in in salvation before and after Christ in Acts 17:

22 Then Paul stood up before the meeting of the Areopagus council and said, “Men of Athens, everything I see here tells me you are very religious. 23 I was going through your city and I saw the things you worship. I found an altar that had these words written on it: ‘ to an unknown god.’ You worship a god that you don’t know. This is the God I want to tell you about.
24 “He is the God who made the whole world and everything in it. He is the Lord of the land and the sky. He does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 He is the one who gives people life, breath, and everything else they need. He does not need any help from them. He has everything he needs. 26 God began by making one man, and from him he made all the different people who live everywhere in the world. He decided exactly when and where they would live.
27 “God wanted people to look for him, and perhaps in searching all around for him, they would find him. But he is not far from any of us. 28 It is through him that we are able to live, to do what we do, and to be who we are. As your own poets have said, ‘We all come from him.’
29 “That’s right. We all come from God. So you must not think that he is like something people imagine or make. He is not made of gold, silver, or stone. 30 In the past people did not understand God, and he overlooked this. But now he is telling everyone in the world to change and turn to him. 31 He has decided on a day when he will judge all the people in the world in a way that is fair. To do this he will use a man he chose long ago. And he has proved to everyone that this is the man to do it. He proved it by raising him from death!”

In essence the people before Christ's salvation looked forward to salvation much in the way we looked back. But because When we look forward, so much is lost to simple ignorance of the things to come God did not hold the world responsible for all the ins and outs of salvation. God judged people based on how they were responsible to the basic understandings of right and wrong he placed in them. However now when we look back we have the benfit of 20/20 hindsight and as such are responsible to the gospel message.

[Mystic]

Looking forward to read more replies.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

*sigh* All Christian exegesis boils down to the same thing: the Bible doesn't mean what it says.

Boru