Why are there significantly less women in S.T.E.M fields, what we can do to help

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

There isn't a need to encourage girls to go into S.T.E.M, the same way there isn't a need to encourage boys to go into modelling, just because of gender domination in either fields.
My point is, if a female likes S.T.E.M or if a male like Modelling or Ballet or whatever then he/she should not be under social pressure to drop what they love just because of their gender. Period.

[Excited Penguin]

There isn't a need to encourage girls to go into S.T.E.M, the same way there isn't a need to encourage boys to go into modelling, just because of gender domination in either fields.
My point is, if a female likes S.T.E.M or if a male like Modelling or Ballet or whatever then he/she should not be under social pressure to drop what they love just because of their gender. Period.

This, x 100000000.

[Excited Penguin]

Let's not get carried away, though, here. Never should we hire a woman, or a non-white person, over a better qualified man or white person simply to make up for the problem. We should instead focus on educating and giving the same opportunities to all people, regardless of gender, race, age and so on.

[Tiberius]

I once taught a computer games programming course to a bunch of 11 year olds. The class was optional and during lunchtime. At the start of the course there were about 4 girls and 12 boys. At the end, only the boys remained. Not sure if most girls are just easily bored by the subject or if there are other social pressures. I suspect it's a bit of both.

[Mermaid]

I don't understand why there are less women in STEM though.
I know really smart girls, well less in comparison to men but they are still pretty freaking smart.
This girl I knew in 10th grade was like my arch enemy, intellectually of course. The sad part was that she defeated me in my own game, very often, which is kind of shocking cos I never nobody have ever owned me in my own game like she has. Which made me in furious and then I kind of liked her. I wish there were more women with the mental capacity like her's

Because we're conditioned to believe that unless we are pretty, pleasant, and not too smart, people will like us and approve of us. If we show too much intellect, we're made fun of and called dyke or geek or otherwise unattractive. It starts at a very early age. Little girls get dolls, little boys get cars and trucks.

[Jenny A]

A few anecdotal and rather random thoughts:

I have two daughters. The eldest is not STEM material. She took two AP science courses (chem and physics I) and sweated bullets surviving them. Her math courses were not fun to watch either. She took them like medicine, cause it's good for you. And she did get A's in the end, but she also probably took a couple years off her life. Which doesn't mean she's not bright. She's a debate team flyer, and she writes rather amazing essays. Unlike the rest of math, statistics was a favorite class--not to mention effortless.

My youngest is science crazy. She has been saying she wants to be a chemical engineer since she was eight, and yes she knew what it meant. I've given her chem stet and animals to dissect for Christmas. The garden has always been something of a science project since she was ten. And she has been programming since she was ten or so. She has always excelled in math. She took AP chem two years early without having taken the prerequisite and led the class. She's a damned fine writer too, with good taste in lit, but it's science that wows her.

Okay, done bragging about my babies. Really.

Both girls have been pushed towards STEM by teachers since middle school. In the first case, it's insane, in the second hardly necessary.

Both girls are that female rarity, gamers.

But, my youngest has taken her last computer programming class for a while. Why? The smell of male programers, I kid you not. She did three semesters plus an independent study and gave up. Even chewing cinnamon or peppermint gum in the lab was not enough to drown out the smell of unwashed adolescent males. And by the end, she was the only girl in the room. She's still programing, but only at home.

I told this story to my brother and he just howled. His only daughter is going into programing, and he asked the only two female programers at the lab, why there are so few women programers and got the same answer both times: unwashed, crude, men.

Science classes generally are rather different. The sexes are represented equally, at least in high school. And the boys are as social and clean or unclean as other boys.

Personally, and this is 30 years ago, there weren't any programing classes and there were as many girls as boys in science classes, at least the ones I took, but I'm a history and philosophy major, not a scientist so I wasn't taking upper level science courses. Philosophy, however, was ruled by men. I must admit, I liked that about it. But I was frequently the only woman in the class. In law school, we women were about 40%, but in tax and corporate law, I was often the only woman in the room. Why? I don't know. No one discouraged me. Actually, from high school on, teachers often suggested law. I didn't decide to go that way until I took a 400/500 class in constitutional law taught by one of the law professors. I fell in love with case law.

I think that part of the disparity really is female choice. But I'm an odd woman. I had a psychology professor give us an Asperger's test which he said would identify our sex. Based on our scores, he divided us up into certainly male, most likely male, uncertain, most likely female, certainly female. I came up certainly male. Not other person in either most likely or certainly, was misidentified. Perhaps I'm not the best woman to tell you about women. ---- Though despite all that, I quit to raise kids, and I'm now perusing a painting career.

Anyway, I think at least in the U.S., there will soon be at least 40% women in the STEM, simply because there doesn't seem to be any discouragement anymore.

[Excited Penguin]

I don't understand why there are less women in STEM though.
I know really smart girls, well less in comparison to men but they are still pretty freaking smart.
This girl I knew in 10th grade was like my arch enemy, intellectually of course. The sad part was that she defeated me in my own game, very often, which is kind of shocking cos I never nobody have ever owned me in my own game like she has. Which made me in furious and then I kind of liked her. I wish there were more women with the mental capacity like her's

Because we're conditioned to believe that unless we are pretty, pleasant, and not too smart, people will like us and approve of us. If we show too much intellect, we're made fun of and called dyke or geek or otherwise unattractive. It starts at a very early age. Little girls get dolls, little boys get cars and trucks.

The last part of your post is very wrong. We don't teach boys and girls to pick their toys, rather you find the same patterns in all cultures and even in countries like Sweden where they've been trying to get as gender neutral as possible for decades.

Anyway, I don't agree with you at all. A really smart girl will always have opportunities if she's really commited. You either have proof the other way, or you don't, but let's not regurgitate mindless myths about sex inequalities.

[Mermaid]

Because we're conditioned to believe that unless we are pretty, pleasant, and not too smart, people will like us and approve of us. If we show too much intellect, we're made fun of and called dyke or geek or otherwise unattractive. It starts at a very early age. Little girls get dolls, little boys get cars and trucks.

The last part of your post is very wrong. We don't teach boys and girls to pick their toys, rather you find the same patterns in all cultures and even in countries like Sweden where they've been trying to get as gender neutral as possible for decades.

Anyway, I don't agree with you at all. A really smart girl will always have opportunities if she's really commited. You either have proof the other way, or you don't, but let's not regurgitate mindless myths about sex inequalities.

That is a hell of a chip on your shoulder there. It's interesting to me that you speak to me so strongly about my experiences growing up female. If you want actual discourse on this, fine. But I don't really care to talk to someone who is so knee-jerk hostile about it. Sheesh. I am hardly "regurgitating mindless myths". Why so defensive about it?

As background, I have an advanced degree and a 25 year career in biological science.

An example from my own personal experience: When I was ready to go to college, more than one person (one of them a mother of two girls) told me that I was wasting my time and taking away a spot that a man should have, because I would end up married with kids and not working anyway.

Before your feathers get ruffled, I acknowledge and understand that men are subject to other, equally anguishing societal pressures.

[Jenny A]

I don't understand why there are less women in STEM though.
I know really smart girls, well less in comparison to men but they are still pretty freaking smart.
This girl I knew in 10th grade was like my arch enemy, intellectually of course. The sad part was that she defeated me in my own game, very often, which is kind of shocking cos I never nobody have ever owned me in my own game like she has. Which made me in furious and then I kind of liked her. I wish there were more women with the mental capacity like her's

Because we're conditioned to believe that unless we are pretty, pleasant, and not too smart, people will like us and approve of us. If we show too much intellect, we're made fun of and called dyke or geek or otherwise unattractive. It starts at a very early age. Little girls get dolls, little boys get cars and trucks.

I'm curious, is your father a STEM boy?  And do you have brothers?  The women I know who were most STEM encouraged in my generation had STEM fathers and no brothers, making them a sort of pseud Daddy's son.

[Excited Penguin]

The last part of your post is very wrong. We don't teach boys and girls to pick their toys, rather you find the same patterns in all cultures and even in countries like Sweden where they've been trying to get as gender neutral as possible for decades.

Anyway, I don't agree with you at all. A really smart girl will always have opportunities if she's really commited. You either have proof the other way, or you don't, but let's not regurgitate mindless myths about sex inequalities.

That is a hell of a chip on your shoulder there. It's interesting to me that you speak to me so strongly about my experiences growing up female. If you want actual discourse on this, fine. But I don't really care to talk to someone who is so knee-jerk hostile about it. Sheesh. I am hardly "regurgitating mindless myths". Why so defensive about it?

As background, I have an advanced degree and a 25 year career in biological science.

An example from my own personal experience: When I was ready to go to college, more than one person (one of them a mother of two girls) told me that I was wasting my time and taking away a spot that a man should have, because I would end up married with kids and not working anyway.

Before your feathers get ruffled, I acknowledge and understand that men are subject to other, equally anguishing societal pressures.

Yeah, well, those people are genuine morons, apparently. I don't think civilised people will say stuff like that, and you shouldn't care about what people say anyway. Have any of your colleagues told you something like that? Any professors of yours? That would be a problem, not some half-baked opinions of jealous individuals who don't have any skills themselves.