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Could we get a prophecy that isn't in some kind of weird code language? If a "prophecy" has to be interpreted because all its events and elements are symbols for other things, then it seems to me that almost any event could be reverse-engineered to fit the vague ramblings of one ancient text or another.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
(March 23, 2016 at 10:55 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Could we get a prophecy that isn't in some kind of weird code language? If a "prophecy" has to be interpreted because all its events and elements are symbols for other things, then it seems to me that almost any event could be reverse-engineered to fit the vague ramblings of one ancient text or another.
No, because receiving a legitimate divination of the future will inherently alter the outcome, negating the prophecy.
**sorry this was longer than intended. Its not an argument to prove anything. Just some stuff rolling around in my head**
I ponder over some of the end of times prophecies.
As a JW we didn't believe in the Rapture or that this earth will be destroyed but rather that we would eventually possess the earth ultimately after this "worlds system" is destroyed. I have already have discussed how global warming is something I view as bringing a demise onto humans, god or no god. Also, there is a prophecy in Revelation that alludes to religion being ultimately destroyed by the worlds governments. Maybe, I don't buy that religion will be destroyed by the governments but you can see a growing discord and resentment that could easily turn to anger and rage.
Those are not the main things I want to talk about. If you have any comments on them I'd love it! [/hide] The bible prophecy I am hoping to get feedback on is found in Daniel 2.
As I am sure you all know , it speaks of a vast human statue made of different metals and materials that was seen in a dream by Nebuchadnezzar. Basically, it represents kingdoms of the earth. And at the end, a stone is cut from a mountain and hits the statue at its feet and destroys it. The scripture that I have thought a lot about is the make up of those feet and what they represent. This is what the verse says, 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people; but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay. (JW's teach that the feet represent the US)
As I have been transitioning to atheism I have been getting more politically involved. What I have been seeing is how the system is becoming more and more broken. You just look at what is going on in the US right now. The 2 main parties have never been more at odds. But you're also seeing a rise in fringe candidates like Trump. But many commenters have pointed out how these supporters are usually low-information voters. Meaning, they have just as much voting power as anyone, but they aren't well informed. Those verses resonate with me for a number of reasons. The US is still the strongest nation in the world. But it is also very fragile. Our economy was almost decimated by an ardent desire to refuse to pay National debts, the middle class is disappearing, and the threat of climate change could cause trillions of dollars of damage. But what are people most concerned with? Planned parenthood. Gun rights. Those damn illegals taking our tomato picking jobs! (sarcasm intended) Democracy seems like the greatest form of government, but its weaknesses are showing through now. Even the founders of the US intended on a very select voting class. Doesn't it seem like the rise of the internet has created a rush of knowledge and information, But the levees have broken and the misinformation and duplicity has become more rampant? I know this doesn't prove anything. The statue in that account represents human rulership. And up to that point in history, human rulership would have been dominated by powerful kings and generals. So, when I read at the end about the rulership being mixed with the people, or the common people as some translations put it, it strongly resonates with me. Anyway, thoughts?
Ok, let's see. I was raised fundamentalist, so I think that I - kind of get where you're coming from. You see so many things that are just illogical, but you still cling to a few things. Particularly, apparently, the Bible. You're still looking at it with reverence - you apparently believe it contains messages from god. And you can't continue to cling to it and believe that "prophecies" in the Bible are real and still call yourself an atheist.
If you haven't already, you might consider looking around at The Skeptic's Annotated Bible site: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ There is also a great site called bibviz.com which compares verse to verse: over 600 contradictions within the bible.
As far as "end times"? To loosely quote Agent K: "someone's always threatening to destroy the Earth, Slick". People have been screaming that the sky is falling for AT LEAST 2000 years. Jesus said that the end times would happen during the lifetime of his followers. (Matthew 16) This doesn't mean that a fantasy about a statue in a book written 2600 years ago has any relevance to present day or the future.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
(March 23, 2016 at 10:55 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Could we get a prophecy that isn't in some kind of weird code language? If a "prophecy" has to be interpreted because all its events and elements are symbols for other things, then it seems to me that almost any event could be reverse-engineered to fit the vague ramblings of one ancient text or another.
lol... So if you were fast forwarded in time 4000 years and brought back you'd be able accurately describe the events going on, in a foreign language using words that have not even been coined in the time you wrote them down? Or would you struggle to describe what you saw by taking things familiar to you and added to them to paint an accurate picture in your own language?
Now to someone 4000 years in the future who does not know your language nor customs or even some of the things you described, would then your words not themselves have to be interpreted?
(March 23, 2016 at 10:55 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Could we get a prophecy that isn't in some kind of weird code language? If a "prophecy" has to be interpreted because all its events and elements are symbols for other things, then it seems to me that almost any event could be reverse-engineered to fit the vague ramblings of one ancient text or another.
lol... So if you were fast forwarded in time 4000 years and brought back you'd be able accurately describe the events going on, in a foreign language using words that have not even been coined in the time you wrote them down? Or would you struggle to describe what you saw by taking things familiar to you and added to them to paint an accurate picture in your own language?
Now to someone 4000 years in the future who does not know your language nor customs or even some of the things you described, would then your words not themselves have to be interpreted?
Pretty sure people that are 4000 years in the future would pretty much know enough about us just saying.
Like we know and have records from back then during the time the bible was written. But end of times prophecies
are just bullshit.
(March 23, 2016 at 2:54 pm)Drich Wrote: lol... So if you were fast forwarded in time 4000 years and brought back you'd be able accurately describe the events going on, in a foreign language using words that have not even been coined in the time you wrote them down? Or would you struggle to describe what you saw by taking things familiar to you and added to them to paint an accurate picture in your own language?
Now to someone 4000 years in the future who does not know your language nor customs or even some of the things you described, would then your words not themselves have to be interpreted?
Pretty sure people that are 4000 years in the future would pretty much know enough about us just saying.
Like we know and have records from back then during the time the bible was written. But end of times prophecies
are just bullshit.
I've asked you like 10 times are you like a high school kid, or is english a second language to you? I ask because your answer seems to miss the point I was making completely. I don't know if I should kick you in the teeth for being stupid or try and explain what the word prophesy means and how it is a prediction made in the past about the future, and not the other way around.
Give it enough time and many "prophecies" will come true. It's just a coincidence, I doubt the chances of things similiar to the "prophecies" happen are small at all given this much time. The hadiths many muslims follow also have these so called "prophecies" come true. It's just a matter of coincidence. And there are many other incoherent things in the holy books. If there is a tiny fault/contradiction in a holy book claimed to be God's words, it dismisses and renders the whole book wrong, since their described God cannot possibly be wrong.
I love it when stupid people make stupid claims, that a third source can quickly settle.
The EU contains no African or Middle Eastern countries (including Turkey), Egypt is not a member . . . In fact, the very link you posted lists 48 countries. The EU has 28 countries. What's the matter Dripshit? Can't count either?
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
, it speaks of a vast human statue made of different metals and materials that was seen in a dream by Nebuchadnezzar. Basically, it represents kingdoms of the earth. And at the end, a stone is cut from a mountain and hits the statue at its feet and destroys it. The scripture that I have thought a lot about is the make up of those feet and what they represent. This is what the verse says, 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people; but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay. (JW's teach that the feet represent the US)
