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One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
#11
RE: One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
Theoretically it might slow down Evolution a bit, but not by any noticeable amount. What really amazed me about this scientist is that he went out and stated "Human evolution is over" because less mutations are passed on. It's an incredibly inaccurate statement...

As for the medicine thing, I severely doubt it. Our immune system is still doing its job protecting us from all types of illness. The use of medicine doesn't weaken our immune system in any way...in fact it helps it! Not to mention, without the use of medicine not many of us would be here today.
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#12
RE: One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
Yeah. Before medicine we lived on average to the age of 25 I heard!
Lol, its weird how none of these articles about human evolution are really even remotely correct it seemsTongue I guess no one really knows? Is there any research at all that could make a more accurate prediction do you think? I certainly don't know of any.
Interesting about the immune system. I thought that medicine allows diseases to get stronger. So you need stronger medicine. And then when you have really really strong medicine your body doesn't need to defend itself so hard, so in other words the immune system isn't required as much, or something like that?
Basically, how does medicine strengthen the immune system? I thought it made the immune system less needed. So it neglects it.
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#13
RE: One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
Come on peoples.. Use your imagination.

And it's not only evolution by natural selection it's also by our design.

For example, a life spent entirely in space would negate the need to have legs. We could have two sets of arms instead. And what about wings for those low gravity/high atmospheric pressure planets?..

I'm sure if we put our minds to it we could populate an entire galaxy!
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#14
RE: One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
(December 15, 2008 at 9:05 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Yeah. Before medicine we lived on average to the age of 25 I heard!

Actually, in Europe right after the rise of the Holy Roman empire, hygiene was quite good in the towns and the countryside. Life expectancy was reasonably high.

The average life span in the Middle Ages was indeed shorter than today but how much smaller is often exaggerated. Average life expectancy at birth was only 35. Many of the people born died while they were still children. Out of all people born between one third and one half died before the age of about 16. However if you could survive to your mid-teens you would probably live to your 50s or early 60s. Even in the Middle Ages some people did live to their 70s or 80s.

After the early middle ages where more and more people were drawn to the cities is where the misery started. Hygiene was a major problem with lack of fresh water and decent sewage. This was the breeding ground of course for epidemics like the plague. Those diseases were transported into the countryside and smaller towns by people trading in the cities.

(December 15, 2008 at 9:05 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Lol, its weird how none of these articles about human evolution are really even remotely correct it seemsTongue I guess no one really knows? Is there any research at all that could make a more accurate prediction do you think? I certainly don't know of any.

No, because our evolution as you know is also dependent on the surroundings we find ourselves in at that time. So there is no way to accurately predict what we would look like 1 billion years from now.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#15
RE: One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
Imagination may take us to worlds that can never exist, but without it, we go nowhere...
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#16
RE: One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
My poor little thread seems to have turned into a debate about the unpredictability of evolution when it was originally designed to spark a bit of imagination and curiosity.. Sad
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#17
RE: One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
(December 15, 2008 at 9:40 pm)leo-rcc Wrote: Actually, in Europe right after the rise of the Holy Roman empire, hygiene was quite good in the towns and the countryside. Life expectancy was reasonably high.

The average life span in the Middle Ages was indeed shorter than today but how much smaller is often exaggerated. Average life expectancy at birth was only 35. Many of the people born died while they were still children. Out of all people born between one third and one half died before the age of about 16. However if you could survive to your mid-teens you would probably live to your 50s or early 60s. Even in the Middle Ages some people did live to their 70s or 80s.

After the early middle ages where more and more people were drawn to the cities is where the misery started. Hygiene was a major problem with lack of fresh water and decent sewage. This was the breeding ground of course for epidemics like the plague. Those diseases were transported into the countryside and smaller towns by people trading in the cities.
Thats really interesting Leo. Where did you get that info? I think I heard hitchens and/or harris or someone else mention the 25 year old average life expectancy before medicine. I also either heard it on the 'Atheist' youtube video that won awards. Or a similar one I get mixed up with sometimes that I forget the name of and can't find now,
So that interests me. I wonder where the 25 year claim comes from originally at least? And I'm interesting to where you heard otherwise.
Quote:No, because our evolution as you know is also dependent on the surroundings we find ourselves in at that time. So there is no way to accurately predict what we would look like 1 billion years from now.
Yeah. Because we can't predict everything about the surroundings for a start!
@ Darwinian: My imagination either works very slowly at the moment. Or its terrible!
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#18
RE: One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
Well I'm sorry Darwinian, but the point is that i can imagine use having skin that helps us protect against radiation, better developed pelvis so back pains are a thing of the past. We might even evolve to survive long times in space without muscle deterioration.

But chances are, 1 billion years from now, humans are extinct.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#19
RE: One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
(December 15, 2008 at 9:50 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote:
(December 15, 2008 at 9:40 pm)leo-rcc Wrote: Actually, in Europe right after the rise of the Holy Roman empire, hygiene was quite good in the towns and the countryside. Life expectancy was reasonably high.

The average life span in the Middle Ages was indeed shorter than today but how much smaller is often exaggerated. Average life expectancy at birth was only 35. Many of the people born died while they were still children. Out of all people born between one third and one half died before the age of about 16. However if you could survive to your mid-teens you would probably live to your 50s or early 60s. Even in the Middle Ages some people did live to their 70s or 80s.

After the early middle ages where more and more people were drawn to the cities is where the misery started. Hygiene was a major problem with lack of fresh water and decent sewage. This was the breeding ground of course for epidemics like the plague. Those diseases were transported into the countryside and smaller towns by people trading in the cities.

Thats really interesting Leo. Where did you get that info? I think I heard hitchens and/or harris or someone else mention the 25 year old average life expectancy before medicine. I also either heard it on the 'Atheist' youtube video that won awards. Or a similar one I get mixed up with sometimes that I forget the name of and can't find now,
So that interests me. I wonder where the 25 year claim comes from originally at least? And I'm interesting to where you heard otherwise.

Well most of my info is what I've gathered from my time at re-enactment and Archeological parks in Europe such as Archeon in the Netherlands. I've also read up a lot on middle ages, and their warfare for instance.

The main reason the life expectancy figure is so much lower in total is more to due with the fact that the plague accounted for over 10% of the worlds population to die at the time. Plus many deaths at young age also pulls the figures down. The book "Expectations of Life by H.O. Lancaster (1990)" gives some better insight.

He compiled a table from where human remains were found, dated them, and by the bone structure assesed an age. He collected as many samples as he could find.

What you see there is that there is a sudden drop between 1300 and 1400 AD because of the black death at 24.5 . Before and after that century the average age was 40 to 48 years.

I don't have that book in digital form so I cant show it, but you can probably find it online somewhere.

Of course the time before the middle ages gets more difficult because you find less and less remains to establish accuracy.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#20
RE: One billion A.D. A question for evolution fans.
Very interesting! I wonder if there's any evidence supporting the 25 year claim that I've heard of. I wonder where that notion comes from? Like I said its only 'apparently'. According to what I've heard. I'm not claiming the 25 year thing because I don't know the source of the evidence. I'll look into the "25" claim if I canSmile That book you mention certainly sounds compelling. I wonder if there's really any opposition at all. Or if there's any merit at all in the one I mentioned?
Evf
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