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Some facts about our universe
#21
RE: Some facts about our universe
Also while it stated "the moon" and "the Sun", it didn't state "the eleven stars" or "the eleven planets", but rather it stated eleven stars were shown to him in his dream prostrating to him.
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#22
RE: Some facts about our universe
I appreciate the time taken MysticKnight. I really ought to be more careful now, especially since I have the new study Quran. This all good practise, though, for when the Saudi funded Fascists come to my town, because they said they want their version of Muhammad's message to enter every home (because Wahaabis/Safalis emphasize Dawah above all else). In fact, listening to somebody like Hamza Tzortis, I get the impression Dawah is this pyramid scheme, and once everyone has recited Shahada nobody will get the best rewards anymore. I can't help but compare the actions of those spreading the cultural hegemony of al-Saud to a pyramid scheme.

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#23
RE: Some facts about our universe
If you can figure out the following:

How can we know there is One God...you will then notice it's through connection between him and servants called "the name of God" or "the face of God". This is simple in meaning but the balance and the world of the armies of light and virtues and soldiers of intellect, each which have their own nature but rely on one another, is a deep topic. So the way to know the truth is through the signs of God in your soul.

If you can figure how why God must be one, you can hit two birds in one stone, you will know both there is a god (A Creator) and you will also know why he is One, absolute, and ultimate, and how you know that.

Wahabis/Salafis oppose that type knowledge and call it Shirk to be honest, because they are allergic to the light belonging to God to the extent God is the light of all light.

Then there is the issue of why God wants to guide humanity through chosen Guides (Prophets and their successors).

I would take notes on this subject. Study the theory of power and influence in political science class. Study the topic of how ethos truly is King to the detriment of humanity.  And study power struggle and theories of regarding that.

Then study what Quran has to say about power and authority and the model God has been trying to get humanity to follow per Quran's claim.

The question to me arises if it's logical to believe God would send guidance is it definitely in today's time of Quran and Ahlulbayt?

But before saying if Quran is right or not, I would see these three general arguments it comes to prove:

1. Tawheed (unity of God, uniqueness of God) and the connection between humanity and God. (the name, the signs of God in the soul)
2. The reason why God sends Prophets and in which manner he would do so.
3. The reason why the same reasoning extends to appointing a series of leaders and guides after the Seal of Prophets and in a certain wise manner that has been acknowledged to be a way of the past by Jews and Christians and why it's illogical for them to think it has come to an end.

The issue of condemning following others to think for you and following fallible people without knowledge or our own desires relates to all of 3 above.

The solution is very simple and obvious to some yet is a deep subject in itself that you can write essays on.

I wouldn't give up on Quran MrMorePropaganda. I would suggest not to focus on what is unclear to you from it, but focus on what is clear. Whatever is clear, make notes of it. That is if you want to truly study it.

Leave the ambiguous, and in time, perhaps what is unclear will become clear to you.
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#24
RE: Some facts about our universe
The way I see it, this topic is really just a sideshow. My main gripe is with Noah's Flood, and it always has been. The story of Moses and that of Adam and Eve present their own problems, but it is mostly Noah.

I cannot get fathom it. It's too fanciful. I always questioned it as a child. And I have never been satisfied with the answers that I have received.

I went searching and magic did not satisfy me as answer. People always said to me Noah had all of the animals. But if I ask: How did all of the food and other supplies fit on the boat them they will say "Well he didn't really have all of the billions of types of animals." But that's not what they teach gullible children.

And what about the plants? The fungi? The bacteria and viruses that populate the food web? And the dinosaurs? Or the freshwater plants and fish? And why reset creation with all of that suffering when creation could have been made perfect in the first instance?

I've thought this through and it makes no sense at all. I'm sorry. The Quran mentions waves the size of mountains. The animals went on the arm, but what about the plants? How did they survive? Noah's family can't nurture every last sapling; they'd be too busy replenishing the Earth's human population.

The Egyptians didn't seem to have been affected by the flood at all. It's like it never took place. They don't mention Moses either, curiously. And genetic diversity would be virtually non-existent after the flood which would cause so many other problems.

More doubts will come into mind as I have a huge book on the shelf I need to bread called "Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Law Giver

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#25
RE: Some facts about our universe
Salam

I don't believe in a literal flood or that there was literal boat they boarded. There is other verses about ships often and they are obviously metaphorical. Also, "every type, two types", I can give you my metaphysical understanding with respect to that and the boat.

This is hinted in Quran "for by the name of God is it's sailing and anchoring".

However the people of Nuh did perish and were destroyed but I think there can be a metaphysical understanding of the type of punishment.\

I also think Nuh's son talk seen as a metaphorical way makes more sense, because, if there were real rain and waves and flooding in that sense, you would think he would board out of fear of his life.

Rather he was stating he would find his own stronghold rather then enter the door that God wanted him to enter in.
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#26
RE: Some facts about our universe
And if the book had said 12, no problem. It's a metaphor for something else also.

That's the point we're trying to make. It can literally mean anything.
This in itself makes it worthless.

It's poetry by man for man. If we can agree to this, then it's still an evil book of control, but at least the club members don't come across as batshit crazy. (Maybe just bull shit crazy) Shy
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#27
RE: Some facts about our universe
I'm always puzzle how "the flood" gets presented to children as a happy tale, with the animals being "saved".

Saved from an unhinged mass murdering supposed guardian, when they didn't even do anything wrong.
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#28
RE: Some facts about our universe
Try explaining the non-literal flood to the tomb keepers at one of the several places that claim to hold his body:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Noah

I'd love to get an X-ray camera on those tombs, but I know that won't happen. People feel passionately about Noah and how their favourite deity pressed the reset button. Even if not literal, it's very saddling that people admire this story of genocide.

I think you're in a minority, MysticKnight, when you say it is not literal. Billions of people around the world believe that the Flood was an actual historical events, be they Rastafari, Mormon, Catholic, Sunni, Shia Ibadi, Ahamadi, Baha'i, Protestant or Jewish. People will bring their evidences, no matter how silly they actually are.

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#29
RE: Some facts about our universe
Even if it's not literal, what the fuck is the message supposed to be?

Do what god says! He will mess you up big time! And he doesn't care who else he takes out in the process!
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
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#30
RE: Some facts about our universe
That god likes good? He don't like evil so he decided enough is enough and wiped out the fucking lot. I suppose it's saying you should be like Noah seeing as he was the only human worth a jot at the time. So what was Noah like? He was a fucking drunk that's what he was so the flood myth is teaching you to drink.

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