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Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
#11
RE: Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
I'm curious, if you think we have no free will, how would a world where we have free will look like?
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#12
RE: Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
(April 14, 2016 at 12:02 am)pool the great Wrote: I'm curious, if you think we have no free will, how would a world where we have free will look like?

Vegan Goddesses and Gods walking around bench-pressing VWs, or... CHAOS!
"I'm thick." - Me
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#13
RE: Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
I'm curious to know how a humans actions which are independent of outside variables would look like
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#14
RE: Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
(April 14, 2016 at 12:11 am)pool the great Wrote: I'm curious to know how a humans actions which are independent of outside variables would look like

Start a thread.
"I'm thick." - Me
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#15
RE: Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
(April 14, 2016 at 12:02 am)pool the great Wrote: I'm curious, if you think we have no free will, how would a world where we have free will look like?

Like a universe fine tuned by God!
IE: no-one knows with our sample of one of one.
So let's not start pretending that we do know...
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#16
RE: Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
(April 13, 2016 at 11:59 pm)Evie Wrote:
(April 13, 2016 at 11:53 pm)pool the great Wrote: Yeah, nice straw.  
I was introduced to the concept of free will from here on AF. So my default assumption was there was no free will since that was the popular stance over here, I thought about it figured out I was wrong and have concluded from then on that free will does indeed exist.

Science is against free will, logic is against free will.
And Evie is against discussing anything about free will.
Xd
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#17
RE: Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
(April 13, 2016 at 11:58 pm)Evie Wrote:
(April 13, 2016 at 11:51 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Sure I do.  I go to the candy aisle, look at the choices available, and choose the one I like.  Freely.

We've been through this before.

You just add the "freely" part on the end without reason. As for the rest, so what?

The whole point is that the decisions we make are not freely chosen, not that we don't make the choices.

Sure it was made freely.  Nobody is stopping me from choosing the candy that I want.  I look at my choices, consider which one I'd like, and reach out and choose it.  That's pretty much the definition of free will.

Now, what you are really trying to say is that decision-making is a deterministic process.  That means that I'm a product of DNA and environment, and that at the moment I choose my candy, I was definitely going to choose the one I want.

But that's not a problem.  Because free will is my ability to express my personhood in my decisions without compulsion from outside agents (like the Devil, or like my mom).  And nobody said I had the free will to form my own identity-- that would be paradoxical.  If there is a candy that most appeals to me, WHY would I want to choose other than I do? That I can only act in one way in a given moment simply means that I have a well-established identity, and act according to it. Freely.
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#18
RE: Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
The thing is that free will tends to be tied into fate.

Going by that standard, we do not have free will.

But I am an anti-theist who does not rely upon fate.

Therefore, consider free will being the ability to act at one's own discretion, as provided by a dictionary.

Considering this secular definition, free will does exist. It means we each have the choice between one action or another.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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#19
RE: Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
(April 13, 2016 at 11:59 pm)Evie Wrote:
(April 13, 2016 at 11:53 pm)pool the great Wrote: Yeah, nice straw.  
I was introduced to the concept of free will from here on AF. So my default assumption was there was no free will since that was the popular stance over here, I thought about it figured out I was wrong and have concluded from then on that free will does indeed exist.

Science is against free will, logic is against free will.

Libertarian free will. *

The majority of philosophers, who are masters at logic, accept the existence of free will in the compatibilist sense.
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#20
RE: Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will
Yes but it's a cheap cop-out.

I spend years thinking it was silly but maybe there was something in it. I kept listening to Daniel Dennett's arguments...

Then he gave a lecture where he said that free will is like money -- it is man-made and people should just agree that it exists.

He's basically admitting it doesn't exist and he thinks we're better off pretending it does. Free will is not like money... either we have it or we don't.

We don't. Compatabilism is silly.
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